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03-22-2016, 08:12 AM
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
CC - I have to say that in many cases where I have seen this happen, there is hidden sin that comes out at some point. I have no knowledge of this, with this instance, but experience does make me wary.
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If we ever forget that we're One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under - Ronald Reagan
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03-22-2016, 08:59 AM
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76
CC - I have to say that in many cases where I have seen this happen, there is hidden sin that comes out at some point. I have no knowledge of this, with this instance, but experience does make me wary.
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years ago there was a church where I live that "went charismatic". Used to be a very powerful Apostolic church. In that space of time when the Church flourished as an Apostolic church there were no known cases of adultery. The pastorate changed and subtle changes were made over time that seemed to raise no red flags. The only red flags were a couple cases of adultery in the laity. Again, the pastorate changed and the outward changes continued until there was no resemblance that it ever was an Apostolic church. Adultery became rampant. It was in the leadership, it was in the laity, it was between leadership and laity. Many marriages were broken up because of adultery. Once a seed is planted, it will continue to grow until it is plucked up by the roots. Perverted doctrine is enough to condemn someone's soul, but is usually not the only area that perversion has taken hold in. It is usually evidence of an issue that has long been flourishing.
But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men
God will pull the covers off of it eventually.
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03-22-2016, 02:51 PM
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by consapente89
years ago there was a church where I live that "went charismatic". Used to be a very powerful Apostolic church. In that space of time when the Church flourished as an Apostolic church there were no known cases of adultery. The pastorate changed and subtle changes were made over time that seemed to raise no red flags. The only red flags were a couple cases of adultery in the laity. Again, the pastorate changed and the outward changes continued until there was no resemblance that it ever was an Apostolic church. Adultery became rampant. It was in the leadership, it was in the laity, it was between leadership and laity. Many marriages were broken up because of adultery. Once a seed is planted, it will continue to grow until it is plucked up by the roots. Perverted doctrine is enough to condemn someone's soul, but is usually not the only area that perversion has taken hold in. It is usually evidence of an issue that has long been flourishing.
But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men
God will pull the covers off of it eventually.
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I know this happens but it also happens when all the apostolic teachings seem to be in place as well. That fellow in Memphis a few years back was preaching it right down Pentecostal central when he got exposed.
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03-22-2016, 04:11 PM
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by returnman
I know this happens but it also happens when all the apostolic teachings seem to be in place as well. That fellow in Memphis a few years back was preaching it right down Pentecostal central when he got exposed.
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It does happen even with those preaching it "right".
I would just say it happens more with those who abruptly stop preaching it "right".
I can say that at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the time I have seen this, there has been something going on.
That correlation is too high for me to not believe it is statistically significant.
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If we ever forget that we're One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under - Ronald Reagan
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03-22-2016, 07:31 PM
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76
It does happen even with those preaching it "right".
I would just say it happens more with those who abruptly stop preaching it "right".
I can say that at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the time I have seen this, there has been something going on.
That correlation is too high for me to not believe it is statistically significant.
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I do agree with your statement here. I am also leery when a conservative pastor makes a rapid change. However in the particular case we are discussing in this thread it is my understanding that SP had been going through a change over an extended period of time. He didn't just wake up one morning and decide he no longer believed like he had previously.
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"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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03-22-2016, 07:25 PM
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by returnman
I know this happens but it also happens when all the apostolic teachings seem to be in place as well. That fellow in Memphis a few years back was preaching it right down Pentecostal central when he got exposed.
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Exactly! Elder Epley and I have had the discussion that moral failure / human failure is not limited to any one branch of Pentecost. I have seen it in lib exUPC or charismatic churches and ultra conservative Pentecostal / Apostolic churches as well.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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03-22-2016, 07:46 PM
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
Exactly! Elder Epley and I have had the discussion that moral failure / human failure is not limited to any one branch of Pentecost. I have seen it in lib exUPC or charismatic churches and ultra conservative Pentecostal / Apostolic churches as well.
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No group has monopoly on moral failures. Immorality has no respect of doctrinal tenets or labels. However I do think we can open doors that gives occasion to fall.
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03-22-2016, 07:28 PM
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by consapente89
years ago there was a church where I live that "went charismatic". Used to be a very powerful Apostolic church. In that space of time when the Church flourished as an Apostolic church there were no known cases of adultery. The pastorate changed and subtle changes were made over time that seemed to raise no red flags. The only red flags were a couple cases of adultery in the laity. Again, the pastorate changed and the outward changes continued until there was no resemblance that it ever was an Apostolic church. Adultery became rampant. It was in the leadership, it was in the laity, it was between leadership and laity. Many marriages were broken up because of adultery. Once a seed is planted, it will continue to grow until it is plucked up by the roots. Perverted doctrine is enough to condemn someone's soul, but is usually not the only area that perversion has taken hold in. It is usually evidence of an issue that has long been flourishing.
But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men
God will pull the covers off of it eventually.
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Your anecdotal instance of a particular church in no way means a pastor / church changing means there is sexual sin / moral failure involved. That would be like me taking the instances I know of where conservative Pentecostal preachers have fallen into sexual sin and blaming it on them being conservative.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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03-22-2016, 09:54 PM
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Posts: 474
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
Your anecdotal instance of a particular church in no way means a pastor / church changing means there is sexual sin / moral failure involved. That would be like me taking the instances I know of where conservative Pentecostal preachers have fallen into sexual sin and blaming it on them being conservative.
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Nailed it!
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03-24-2016, 11:59 PM
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Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
Quote:
Originally Posted by consapente89
years ago there was a church where I live that "went charismatic". Used to be a very powerful Apostolic church. In that space of time when the Church flourished as an Apostolic church there were no known cases of adultery. The pastorate changed and subtle changes were made over time that seemed to raise no red flags. The only red flags were a couple cases of adultery in the laity. Again, the pastorate changed and the outward changes continued until there was no resemblance that it ever was an Apostolic church. Adultery became rampant. It was in the leadership, it was in the laity, it was between leadership and laity. Many marriages were broken up because of adultery. Once a seed is planted, it will continue to grow until it is plucked up by the roots. Perverted doctrine is enough to condemn someone's soul, but is usually not the only area that perversion has taken hold in. It is usually evidence of an issue that has long been flourishing.
But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men
God will pull the covers off of it eventually.
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That is what has happened at Fort Worth with the beforementioned church.
It has adultery running rampant.
The young people have fornication running through the youth group.
Did not happen when the Elder P was there.
Somewhere the door was opened .
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