A Picture of Grace from God's Point of View

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

see, i don't see "Muslims" in that statement anywhere

but i do see Judge not, lest you be judged.
and forgive, and you will be forgiven.

You fail to read all of what Jesus said about judge in Matt 7.

And you forget repeating what the bible says is letting God judge, not us judging anything.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You fail to read all of what Jesus said about judge in Matt 7.

And you forget repeating what the bible says is letting God judge, not us judging anything.

So you say; yet Christ made it plain that He did not come to judge.

Mike, it has become plain to me that you really don't know Christ at all; can i lead you to Him?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

So you say; yet Christ made it plain that He did not come to judge.

Mike, it has become plain to me that you really don't know Christ at all; can i lead you to Him?

Brother Blume, please consider the source.

You are dealing with a Troll.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Brother Blume, please consider the source.

You are dealing with a Troll.

yet i have Scriptural backing, and I'm just fulfilling the Great Commission the way that you yourself understand it. We read that there is no condemnation in those who are in Christ; and while one might debate whether that condemnation is incoming or outgoing, those who say "All Muslims are lost" have both bases covered; they condemn Muslims, or any Christians who disagree with them, etc, and i condemn them, for conforming to the world and trying to legitimize it with Christ.

So who is the troll? Those repeating gossip and slander against others, because that is all they have, or the guy saying "foul?" You decide.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by shazeep

So you say; yet Christ made it plain that He did not come to judge.

Mike, it has become plain to me that you really don't know Christ at all; can i lead you to Him?

Lo! He is here. Lo! He is there.

If any should say this to you, believe them not.

shazeep, you have a funny way of speaking for God, knowing how He will judge and mete out eternal justice, but then tell us we haven't the right to know who is saved or lost, according to the Final Judgment at the Throne of Christ.

You are effectively making yourself out to be a prophet with special insight and knowledge of the Holy One.

And yet, how little of the Holy One's Eternal Word you use.

A few verses here and there, "judge not", "forgive and be forgiven", "become like little children", "know them by their fruits", and etc. do not paint the entire picture of the Christian faith.

You who openly admits to failing all of God's commands on a regular basis and then assume to tell others how to know and perceive Christ?

Romans 2:21-24,

21. Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22. Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege
23. Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24. For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

You're preaching how we should not do this or that, yet plainly tell us you fail God in all of His commandments on a regular basis, thereby declaring you are guilty of the very things you tell us not to be doing.

And such actions are, according to Holy Scripture, hypocritical.

You're so bent on getting the alleged beam out of our eyes, and yet have you not considered the beam that is in your own eye?

Muslims will be judged based on what they know of Christ as Spirit? What Angel of Light told you that one?

Who in this world is able to bypass the cross, circumvent the Gospel, and still find saving eternal grace in the eyes of God? Christ tasted death for everyone, so that THROUGH HIM all men and women might be saved.

God chooses the foolishness of preaching to save. How shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall a preacher preach, lest he be sent? And how shall the preacher be sent, lest he is willing to go? And how can the preacher even dream of going if all he can say to the Muslim is "I don't know if your saved or lost; God will judge you according to what you know about Jesus (Isa), according to the Qu'ran".

That's not a gospel. That's a "meh", you're on your own, kid. There is no love in your message at all.

The salvation of the world has been entrusted to the Church. We are the Body of Messiah, His active, acting agent and representative to all, in every tribe, tongue, and nation. There is no salvation outside of the Body of Christ. This Body alone is the temple of God through the Spirit. Whosoever sins we retain, they are retained.

We pray people in Christ's stead to be reconciled to God. No one accidentally fell backwards into the Kingdom of God one day, all on their own. This holy nation of royal priests has a job to do and a commission to do it.

You're so wary of saying "All ______ are lost". You don't want anyone to fill in the blank. Well here I go, filling in the blank:

ALL UNREGENERATE SINNERS ARE LOST.

If not, then someone somewhere out there didn't come short of the glory of God, and will make it just fine on their own. The blood of Jesus? No thanks, I've got enough light to make it to heaven all by myself.

How absurd! Get real. Get your head out of the clouds of your own making, and find a place of repentance if God will grant you one, and sacrifice this nonsense right out of you. Seriously.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Seriously.

exactly. so why do you expect a Muslim to feel any different? An unregenerate sinner demonstrates that they have not changed their mind, and generally displays the same mindset as everyone else, which in America might be described as dissing Muslims incoherently, and only shutting up when someone asks you what any Muslim has ever done to you--or Catholic, or whomever else is being condemned that day; just like most people all over the world do. "We have got it right, and everyone else, not so much."

So maybe we should refine the definition of "unregenerate sinner" here, because to me that = bigots who have found some isolated Scriptures to condemn other people with, which is what they were going to do anyway, but now they get to pretend that God said it. As you think, so are you, and you are free to sugar coat it with claims of channeling God all you like.

What i don't really get tho is i quote Christ and get shouted down by people who claim Jesus is God but quote Paul go figure

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

What i don't really get tho is i quote Christ and get shouted down by people who claim Jesus is God but quote Paul go figure

Wonderful, now he doesn't believe the writings of Paul are inspired by Christ.

Well, here is a quote just for you from the Apostle Peter.

2 Peter 3:15-16

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by shazeep

exactly. so why do you expect a Muslim to feel any different? An unregenerate sinner demonstrates that they have not changed their mind, and generally displays the same mindset as everyone else, which in America might be described as dissing Muslims incoherently, and only shutting up when someone asks you what any Muslim has ever done to you--or Catholic, or whomever else is being condemned that day; just like most people all over the world do. "We have got it right, and everyone else, not so much."

So maybe we should refine the definition of "unregenerate sinner" here, because to me that = bigots who have found some isolated Scriptures to condemn other people with, which is what they were going to do anyway, but now they get to pretend that God said it. As you think, so are you, and you are free to sugar coat it with claims of channeling God all you like.

What i don't really get tho is i quote Christ and get shouted down by people who claim Jesus is God but quote Paul go figure

I don't place any expectations upon any Muslims. They, as all others, are free to live their own life as they see fit. But let us be honest about what a Muslim is. A Muslim is a member of the Islamic faith. The Islamic faith was founded by Muhammed. The main catechism of the Islamic faith is as follows:

"There is no god but Allah, and Muhammed is His prophet"

Devout Muslims practice the five pillars. The read and memorize the Qu'ran, their main sacred text. They also study the Hadiths and other Islamic writings.

Contained within these fundamentals, is a belief that Jesus, that is, Isa, is a great prophet and messenger of Allah. Isa is highly revered in Islamic tradition. He is even considered Messiah, and is expected to return to earth again in a Second Coming.

All of which would be wonderful except for one glaring problem. No Muslim if he or she wants to be taken seriously as a Muslim and accepted by his or her Islamic peers, will ever believe Isa died on a cross and that He is the Son of God/Allah. In college, I talked at length with a Muslim friend from Nigeria and the main stumblingblock and diving line was Jesus being the Son of God. She would not have it!

Therefore, the moment a Muslim believes those things about Isa, he or she is no longer a Muslim. Muhammed will be discarded as a false prophet, the Qu'ran will be relegated to the dust bin, and except for those who speak Arabic, Allah will be removed from the vocabulary and in its place, God will be adopted.

The faiths are mutually exclusive. Why in the world you can't or seemingly refuse to see that is beyond me.

You seem always ready to defend a Muslim while concurrently ready to smear a Christian. What's the deal?

I challenge you to watch this video to the end:

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

The faiths are mutually exclusive. Why in the world you can't or seemingly refuse to see that is beyond me.

quite simply because faith transcends religion, and an individual Muslim is free to come to the light, regardless of their dogma, just as a Christian is. I never meant to claim that Islam was any less retarded than what has become of Christianity; i agree that few find the path, regardless of their dogma.

Originally Posted by votivesoul

You seem always ready to defend a Muslim while concurrently ready to smear a Christian. What's the deal?

i am a Christian, listening to wolves in sheep's clothing defending drone bombers with Scripture; what would you suggest i do? Christians are supposed to be the people who practice the gifts of the spirit. Muslims are just people, like Christians. We both know--or at least we both should know, that the labels mean only as much as the individual, and both labels are sorely abused. There is no condemnation in those who are in Christ.

"All Muslims are lost" becomes the engine that powers world conflict, for profit, and would be funny if it weren't so destructive; it is just so typical of the majority, any majority.

Instead of "Muslim/Christian" there, you could have as easily said "black/white" a hundred years ago, or "Communist/Free" fifty years ago. You are just carrying on the spirit of Jim Crow, and i am doing this because Christ is not, anywhere, evident in our accusations, but in our forgiveness. When you say "All Muslims are lost," you show that you are lost.