A Picture of Grace from God's Point of View

shazeep · #1 05-10-2016, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

You said we cannot say they're lost. So that leaves the possibility they're saved.

and we have already investigated your definitions of "saved" and "lost," and you didn't do so well there, did you? But i can see that we aren't even having the same conversation, and that this prolly isn't even possible. Best of luck to you.

mfblume · #2 05-10-2016, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

and we have already investigated your definitions of "saved" and "lost," and you didn't do so well there, did you? But i can see that we aren't even having the same conversation, and that this prolly isn't even possible. Best of luck to you.

Well, when you say things such as we can never know the truth, anyway, your concept of lost or saved is simply something too vague to accept.

And I already mentioned that as well. No such thing as luck, unless you don't believe the word. Oh, right...

mfblume · #3 05-10-2016, 07:53 AM

Here is your error of reasoning, shazeep.

Mark 16:16 KJV He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

We read that and if we say, "You're not baptized and you don't believe? Well Jesus said you shall be damned," you jump in and say we are being judgmental!

John 3:18-19 KJV He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

We read that and say, "You do not believe Jesus is the Messiah whose death saves us? Jesus said you are condemned already." You jump in and say we are condemning.

We read those verses and say, "You have not believed on the name of the ONLY BEGOTTEN (note the term begotten) Son of God, because your holy book says God CANNOT beget, then Jesus said you are condemned already." You jump in and say we are judgmental.

1 John 5:10 KJV He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

We read that and show the record throughout the New Testament that states the work of the cross is God's plan of salvation, and say, "You do not believe God's record of the work of the cross? You just made God a liar since you deny the cross even occurred." You jump in and say we are so condemning and not carrying our crosses!

1 John 2:22 KJV Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

We read that and say, "You do not believe God can beget a Son, since the Qu'ran says God cannot never did and never will beget? John said you are antichrist if you deny God has an actual Son He whom begat."

And you jump in and say we're being judgmental. In each and every case the bible made the conclusion, not me. And you claim I am being judgmental.

You're just not wanting to accept what parts of the bible say, is the reality of the picture. But no matter how hard you twist and force, the bible says what it says, and it is not meant to confuse or deceive. That is actually blasphemy. It is meant to shed simple truth to recover people from hell by rescuing them from false religion and .blindness.

shazeep · #4 05-11-2016, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Well, when you say things such as we can never know the truth, anyway, your concept of lost or saved is simply something too vague to accept.

i never said that one can never know the truth, however. I said that truth is not necessarily objective. As to my concept of saved being too vague, i could present 20 Scriptures about "saved" that you would argue with, and consider "vague," and have already presented quite a few.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

And I already mentioned that as well. No such thing as luck, unless you don't believe the word. Oh, right...

Oh, right, everyone else has to be wrong for you to be more right, i forgot. Huh?

i'll stick with the word "luck" there, i chose it on purpose, and it certainly seems to be a factor in courtroom dramas.

Let's go with the "Catholic" thing for a minute, i believe we might shed some light with that line of questioning, if you are game.

mfblume · #5 05-11-2016, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

i never said that one can never know the truth, however. I said that truth is not necessarily objective. As to my concept of saved being too vague, i could present 20 Scriptures about "saved" that you would argue with, and consider "vague," and have already presented quite a few.

Yes you did say it. I can hunt it up if you insist.

Quote:

Oh, right, everyone else has to be wrong for you to be more right, i forgot.

No, and that is a lying misrepresentation of my stance. I always said the WORD is what is right. Nothing else. But then again you cannot take the word for what it says, and think it's deception on God's part to purposely supply contradictions to entrap people, leaving those who actually believe Mark 16:16 is true to be lost.

And that's too serious for an LOL.

Quote:

Huh?

i'll stick with the word "luck" there, i chose it on purpose, and it certainly seems to be a factor in courtroom dramas.

Let's go with the "Catholic" thing for a minute, i believe we might shed some light with that line of questioning, if you are game.

Catholics are lost. But they as well as muslims and buddhists and hindus, and whoever else denies the cross, can be saved if they accept it. Anything else?

mfblume · #6 05-11-2016, 08:54 AM

Shazeep,

Why is it judgmental to read this verse...

John 3:18 KJV He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

...And chat with someone who tells you that they do not believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God, and inform them the bible says they are condemned?

shazeep · #7 05-11-2016, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yes you did say it. I can hunt it up if you insist.

ok, i insist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

No, and that is a lying misrepresentation of my stance. I always said the WORD is what is right. Nothing else. But then again you cannot take the word for what it says, and think it's deception on God's part to purposely supply contradictions to entrap people, leaving those who actually believe Mark 16:16 is true to be lost.

again, i note that when you quote Scripture It is sacrosanct; but when i quote Scripture It is reasoned away. The point is to reconcile those believers in Mark with God's Grace, not condemn them. And where did you get this "deception" thing? What is that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Catholics are lost. But they as well as muslims and buddhists and hindus, and whoever else denies the cross, can be saved if they accept it. Anything else?

There was a man who owned a vineyard, and he had two sons...lol. Who defines "acceptance" or denial, here? Lemme guess--the parts of Scripture that you quote, and not the parts that i quote.

How do Catholics "deny" the cross?