Does the golden rule save without the cross?

[mfblume]

And Christ taught along with the apostles that belief in the heart THAT ONLY GOD SEES can save, despite all the mouth service anyone can exert without that heart-belief.

And it is cognitive dissonance that overlooks all the repeated explanations that faith ONLY GOD SEES is what saves.

[mfblume]

Jesus pointed everything to the cross.

John 11:25 KJV Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

How can he be resurrection and life without death and burial first?



He introduced to them to salvation without works by FAITH.

John 6:28-35 KJV Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (30) They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? (31) Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. (32) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. (33) For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. (34) Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. (35) And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

He spoke of himself as bread, then led them further and further to the concept of the cross.

John 6:40 KJV And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

He brought resurrection into the picture again, which the apostles later expounded upon and stated death with Christ leads to that resurrection.

John 6:53 KJV Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

After having stated the FLESH AND BLOOD give eternal life, they wondered if he meant cannibalism, and He explained that was a PICTURE of HIS WORD.

John 6:63-64 KJV It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. (64) But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

The flesh he spoke of is not the literal issue, but points to what they must BELIEVE in HIS WORD.

And we see it all come together at the end of His ministry, after having led them up to this through those who 3.5 years.

Matthew 26:26-28 KJV And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. (27) And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; (28) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The flesh and his blood point to the cross where he would be broken in death and shed blood for remission of sins.

ALL HE SAID pointed to that day of the cross. ALL.

And to stumble over the cross by missing how all he said pointed to it, with GENUINE FAITH and not empty altar activity and lip service that can be done without faith, but is necessarily to follow after GENUINE FAITH, is to be lost as lost can be.

[mfblume]

All will sadly be LOST if they do not have the FAITH in their hearts that ONLY GOD CAN SEE that stands on nothing but the shed blood of Jesus on the cross for remission of their sins.



The irony of it all is astounding!!

When Jesus spoke of the "Lord Lord" criers, he referred to PEOPLE WHO KNEW HIM AS LORD, but WHOM HE NEVER KNEW HIMSELF AS THE SAVED.

Get the picture. Knowing the Lord's identity, but the Lord not know ONE'S IDENTITY.

This is a picture that leads to Christ's words explaining that those who HEAR HIS WORDS AND DO NOT DO THEM are like people building HOUSES ON SAND. Those who HEAR HIM and DO HIS WORDS are building on ROCK.

All of this scenario is linked to Matt 16 where Jesus spoke of the CHURCH ON THE ROCK. Get It? BUILDING ON THE ROCK?

In that chapter, Peter learned the identity of the Lord from the revelation of the Father. After Jesus indicated to him that the Father indeed blessed him to show Peter Christ's identity, and it did not come from flesh and blood, Jesus then proceeded to add HIS WORDS after the FATHER'S. And it is HIS WORDS that He said people must listen to in order to build HOUSES ON THE ROCK.

These are the WORDS ABOUT THE CROSS. FROM THAT TIME FORWARD, once the Father revealed Christ's identity to Peter, JESUS SPOKE OF THE CROSS.

Get it. The Father's words were about Christ's identity. THE LORD'S WORDS WERE ABOUT THE CROSS. Notice the contrast between what the FATHER SAID and what CHRIST SAYS.

Matthew 16:16-18 KJV And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. (17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. (18) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And after JESUS SPOKE OF building on the rock, connecting us with the His words in Mat 7 about the "Lord Lord" criers and the HOUSE ON THE ROCK built by the wise who HEAR CHRIST'S WORDS AND DO THEM, we read HE SAID THIS.

Matthew 16:21 KJV From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

And PETER, JUST LIKE SOME here today ON THIS FORUM in 2016, REJECTED THE MESSAGE CROSS.

Matthew 16:22-23 KJV Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. (23) But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Jesus formerly IDENTIFIED PETER once Peter indicated HE HEARD THE FATHER'S WORDS. but when the SON started speaking of the CROSS, suddenly JESUS' perception of Peter's IDENTITY CHANGED! Jesus identified Peter as SATAN this time. Just like those who reject the CROSS, satan is involved.

So we see an instance of the FIRST REVELATION we get is the identity of THE SON from the FATHER. And the SECOND REVELATION we get is THE CROSS.

Peter was like the LORD LORD criers in Matt 7. THEY KNEW JESUS' IDENTITY, for they called HIM "LORD." But the reason Jesus continued in Matt 7 to say those who use HIS NAME for miracles, and know HIS IDENTITY as Lord, ARE THOSE WHOM HE DOES NOT KNOW BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HEAR HIS WORDS AND DO THEM. What were his words? What did He say he had to SPEAK after the FATHER SPOKE about his identity? THE CROSS.
THE CROSS. THE CROSS. THE CROSS.

So the whole picture is the LORD LORD criers are those who love the identity of Jesus, which is how they can come to call him LORD! But they DO NOT HEAR HIS OWN WORDS AND DO WHAT HE SAID....

HIS WORDS are about HIS CROSS and their need to take THEIR CROSSES as well.

And yet this entire point of the LORD LORD criers and hearing Christ's words about the cross and doing them, or else HE DOES NO KNOW US, is TWISTED to the polar opposite by our friend who proposes a CROSSLESS gospel and would never tell an islamic about the cross, when Paul said he determined to know nothing among his listeners than CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED.

>>>>>MIC DROP<<<<

[mfblume]

And watch the over -ooking and purposed negligence of DETAILS that prove the need of the cross, and watch it referred to as legalism, as though Jesus preached legalism when he said we must HEAR HIS WORDS AND DO THEM.



Sad.

[mfblume]

We can hear the Father's words to us about His identity and do works based upon THAT REVELATION. That is knowledge enough for us to work miracles, and prophesy, and cast out devils.

That is the works we can accomplish by the Father's revelation of WHO THE SON IS. Peter got that in Matt 16.

But what Peter REJECTED, which is being rejected here on the forum by some, is CHRIST'S WORDS that deal with the CROSS.

Matthew 16:20-21 KJV Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. (21) From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

The FATHER showed Peter something. Christ's identity. But JESUS SHOWED the cross.

And Jesus said you can do works from the Father's revelation of the Son's identity like casting out devils IN HIS NAME, and prophesying IN HIS NAME. You KNOW HIS NAME MEANS LORD because of the Father's revelation.

But that is not enough.

WE NEED THE WORDS OF THE SON.

Compare:

Matthew 16:20-21 KJV Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. (21) From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Matthew 7:24 KJV Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

The Lord only knows those who HEAR HIS WORDS ABOUT THE CROSS and DO WORKS BASED ON THEM, not merely the works based on the revelation of WHO HE IS.

This is the sum VOID in all religions who recognize Jesus, BUT REJECT HIS WORDS ON THE CROSS.

And this explanation is what this crossless gospel hates to hear.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The irony of it all is astounding!!

nothing like the irony of refusing to examine where you are in firm denial, and can allow no examination of it. This is why you would need "proof" that you are lost, rather than genuinely seeking to understand why a Catholic should be as offended as you would be at being told they are lost.

You say you need the Words of the Son, and you somehow believe now that you are in full agreement with Christ, yet whenever i quote Christ you set about disagreeing or qualifying everything Christ said, i don't get it.

So as this has been settled--if not in your mind, then i can readily bring up any past quotes to illustrate it further, you already know the ones--I'm interested in outlining the relationship to Universal Dominion, which i see as being central to the point here, and i did not allow for in my outline, so it has really thrown a wrench in things.

I'm noticing that no one wants to touch the subject, which i kind of don't get, as some good points seem to have been made in the "Rapture Ready" Pentecostal treatise on the matter, even if i might disagree that the Body of Christ should be looking for a physical return. Or, shouldn't it be pretty easy to refute the charges implicit in "ISIS and Graham?"

If it helps any, i am not asking these questions as a lawyer; i have no prepared replies, and have no idea where that conversation--assuming it could be had, of course--might lead. But why do i have the feeling that i could predict engagement here as easily as predicting that you could not make an unbiased poll, or examine where an argument failed?

There is no sin in being wrong; the sin is in insisting wrong is right in the face of evidence--provided by yourself--to the contrary, and refusing to look at the evidence. Isn't it? If you trust your doctrine, and your doctrine is contained in your statements, would your own statements serve as an accurate reflection of your doctrine? Are there any you would like to amend? You know the ones i will quote, surely, "read some Paul and voila," "Love is for the confused," and i don't know if you recall the statements that engendered "gutless" or "painted into a corner," you might wanna take a quick look at those, but my point here is to not hold you to these if you feel that they might be better expressed some other way.

Because the rhetoric from either of us is going to be ignored, and it is these statements, from yourself--just like my statements from myself will be used against me also, although strangely none in your camp are quoting me for clarification, hmm--that will be what people consider "evidence," again using your own standard. Except note that i am not trying to hold you to misstatements, or even things taken differently than you meant.

[mfblume]

Stumbling, ever stumbling, at the cross.

[shazeep]

is this an explanation of why "Love is for the confused," because i am missing the point if it is, sorry.

Originally Posted by mfblume

And Christ taught along with the apostles that belief in the heart THAT ONLY GOD SEES can save, despite all the mouth service anyone can exert without that heart-belief.

And it is cognitive dissonance that overlooks all the repeated explanations that faith ONLY GOD SEES is what saves.

ok, how do you reconcile "they are all lost" with this, again?