You not preaching holiness till you've named it!

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by shazeep

must anxiously await the day that he should appear.

i don't get how a believer can assert that they are the Body of Christ and yet be looking for a physical return. This seems to make "Body of Christ" into a lie imo. Guess that's another thread though, kinda.

1 John 1:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

I have no idea what you are meaning?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I have no idea what you are meaning?

hmm, not sure i do either, other than to say what i have already said; it seems contradictory to look for a physical return of Christ if we are "the Body of Christ." I would not negate 1 John 1:28 or its many supporting verses, but have to recognize that Christ is a Spirit, and also that Universal Dominion such as is contemplated, with Christ physically ruling on earth, would also violate free will? Didn't Jesus already turn that down? Or am i mistaken?

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by shazeep

hmm, not sure i do either, other than to say what i have already said; it seems contradictory to look for a physical return of Christ if we are "the Body of Christ." I would not negate 1 John 1:28 or its many supporting verses, but have to recognize that Christ is a Spirit, and also that Universal Dominion such as is contemplated, with Christ physically ruling on earth, would also violate free will? Didn't Jesus already turn that down? Or am i mistaken?

I am not sure of how it all will work. You are correct about us having the spirit of Christ, but the resurrected body of Christ has locality. Our resurrected body will as well. I hold a futurist view, but I don't consider myself in any category. I have some partial preterist views, but the scripture is clear that Jesus will return again for his Bride. The Church being the body of Christ on this earth doesn't meet the biblical criteria to make it fulfillment for that return. The Holy Ghost is the earnest of our inheritance. Or the purchase price on the dowry of His bride.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I am not sure of how it all will work. You are correct about us having the spirit of Christ, but the resurrected body of Christ has locality. Our resurrected body will as well. I hold a futurist view, but I don't consider myself in any category. I have some partial preterist views, but the scripture is clear that Jesus will return again for his Bride. The Church being the body of Christ on this earth doesn't meet the biblical criteria to make it fulfillment for that return. The Holy Ghost is the earnest of our inheritance. Or the purchase price on the dowry of His bride.

can't tell you how refreshing it is to hear someone who knows say they don't know!
i don't either, but my current theory is Christ is only "waiting" for a prepared bride now.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by shazeep

can't tell you how refreshing it is to hear someone who knows say they don't know!
i don't either, but my current theory is Christ is only "waiting" for a prepared bride now.

which, after sleeping on it, i see might mean "when you exhibit the same unity in overcoming that you exhibit in making war, inventing atom bombs, going into space, etc, well then you obviously won't be asking for Christ to return quickly then, will you?"

And as weird as it is to admit, we live in a miracle, earth is getting better all the time, and your biggest fears--what, terrorists, maybe? --are manufactured, and over-reported, no one reading this would have any interest in living 200 years ago, i don't think.

So while i agree that The Church being the body of Christ on this earth doesn't meet the biblical criteria to make it fulfillment for that return, i suggest that it is at least possible that what many Christians accept as God's plan is not in God's plans at all.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by shazeep

can't tell you how refreshing it is to hear someone who knows say they don't know!
i don't either, but my current theory is Christ is only "waiting" for a prepared bride now.

Sooooooooo

If new converts (new BIRTH) are a resulr of the relationship between the Spirit and the Church, is Christ committing fornication with His Bride until the marriage?

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Sooooooooo

If new converts (new BIRTH) are a resulr of the relationship between the Spirit and the Church, is Christ committing fornication with His Bride until the marriage?

That is so diabolical that I really don't know where to start in answering it. I guess one analogy that can be used is that the bride is in preparation. Souls being won to the Lord is in preparation for his Return. The Holy Spirit is the dowry paid on the bride. The marriage of the lamb is not past it is future.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

That is so diabolical that I really don't know where to start in answering it. I guess one analogy that can be used is that the bride is in preparation. Souls being won to the Lord is in preparation for his Return. The Holy Spirit is the dowry paid on the bride. The marriage of the lamb is not past it is future.

Diabolical? Huh? That is a stupid statement........

Diabolical.....

Diabolic
DIABOLIC, DIABOLICAL, a. [L., the devil.] Devilish; pertaining to the devil; hence, extremely malicious; impious; atrocious; nefarious; outrageously wicked; partaking of any quality ascribed to the devil; as a diabolical temper; a diabolical scheme or action.

Climb back in your dispensational hole and stay there.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Christ is only "waiting" for a prepared bride now.

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Sooooooooo

If new converts (new BIRTH) are a resulr of the relationship between the Spirit and the Church, is Christ committing fornication with His Bride until the marriage?

i'm sure it is the bride committing fornication with the world, so to speak. You have to admit that suggesting Christ is in sin is kind of anathema to being a follower of Christ, so i struggle to grasp your meaning there. It suggests that Christ tramples the bride, and not the other way around? Perhaps a word other than fornication--which will inevitably manifest a vision in the sexual realm--might better illuminate your point.

but to reply to that as it sits, i would say that consummation = marriage to God, although the Bride is meant to be an analogy, and i think we are stretching that a bit far, maybe. A Prepared Bride seems to me to be what prevents Universal Dominion, which i am confident will reflect the implications of 1Sam8, and not some fascist government utopia which relies on a religious mandate of They Are All Lost to oppress and annihilate perceived and likely manufactured enemies in order to retain power and hoard resources. There's your fornication, imo.

And if one thinks that Christ is going to come and bodily save us, then i would suggest a rereading of 1Sam8, there at the end. We are currently indoctrinated into the belief that we should fear Armageddon, or that Christ will come and whisk us all away from the consequences of our fornications, when i am increasingly convinced that it is believers who will initiate Armageddon, and this is all that satan fears. Armageddon is the end of satan, not the end of believers. If your prayer is for the alleviation of some government-mandated evil, God is not even hearing you.

I wouldn't be expecting Christ to come save you until you demonstrate that you are willing to die for Christ. If your life is more precious to you than your death, then you did not understand baptism, and you are not following Christ; you are a fence sitter. Speaking generally of course, i don't mean you TJ.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I have some partial preterist views, but the scripture is clear that Jesus will return again for his Bride.

Partial preterism accounts for that belief. Jesus is coming back for His church. Just wondered why you put a BUT in there since it sounds like you did not know partial preterism believes in a future second coming for the church.

The Church being the body of Christ on this earth doesn't meet the biblical criteria to make it fulfillment for that return. The Holy Ghost is the earnest of our inheritance. Or the purchase price on the dowry of His bride.

Adam's BODY, so to speak, was Eve. Bone of his bones and flesh of his flesh. And yet he still had his own personal body of arms, legs and torso. Same with Christ.