More on Skirts

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It is more respectful to allow the entire Law to stand as a whole to condemn the sins of the world, and to place the Christian entirely in Christ, than to treat the law like a buffet bar that we can just pick and choose from.

Here's an example... please list for me exactly what laws you think still apply out of the Law of Moses. Will your list match that of everyone who will pick and choose from the Law of Moses or is it a matter of arbitrary and subjective interpretation? What about other laws governing attire, including laws against poly-knit clothing? What about laws governing the shaving of the corner's of one's beard? What about laws governing a woman's menses? What about various Sabbath laws? The list could go on and on.

I think we actually do more violence to the Law of Moses by treating it like a buffet bar from which we can pick and choose our laws, thereby creating a religion of subjective law keeping, than we do if we put it entirely under the covenant of grace.

Which stuff on this menu is no longer available?

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is ABOMINATION.

Leviticus 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an ABOMINATION: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Proverbs 6:16-19

These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an ABOMINATION unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 11:20

They that are of a froward heart are ABOMINATION to the LORD: but such as are upright in their way are his delight.

Proverbs 12:22

Lying lips are ABOMINATION to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.

Proverbs 15:26

The thoughts of the wicked are an ABOMINATION to the LORD: but the words of the pure are pleasant words.


Proverbs 15:8

The sacrifice of the wicked is an ABOMINATION to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Proverbs 16:5

Every one that is proud in heart is an ABOMINATION to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Proverbs 17:15

He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are ABOMINATION to the LORD.

Proverbs 20:10

Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike ABOMINATION to the LORD.

Proverbs 28:9

He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be ABOMINATION.


Deuteronomy 22:5

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are
ABOMINATION unto the LORD thy God.













Ezekiel 33:6

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Which stuff on this menu is no longer available?

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is ABOMINATION.

Leviticus 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an ABOMINATION: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Proverbs 6:16-19

These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an ABOMINATION unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 11:20

They that are of a froward heart are ABOMINATION to the LORD: but such as are upright in their way are his delight.

Proverbs 12:22

Lying lips are ABOMINATION to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.

Proverbs 15:26

The thoughts of the wicked are an ABOMINATION to the LORD: but the words of the pure are pleasant words.


Proverbs 15:8

The sacrifice of the wicked is an ABOMINATION to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Proverbs 16:5

Every one that is proud in heart is an ABOMINATION to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Proverbs 17:15

He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are ABOMINATION to the LORD.

Proverbs 20:10

Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike ABOMINATION to the LORD.

Proverbs 28:9

He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be ABOMINATION.


Deuteronomy 22:5

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are
ABOMINATION unto the LORD thy God.













Ezekiel 33:6

I believe that either the entire Law is in play, or none of it is in play. Either one must obey the entire Law, or one is elevated in Christ into a Grace that is above the Law.

Now, Grace is not lawlessness. The law of Grace is love. And the commandments of this law are:

1.) Love God with all your being.
2.) Love others as yourself.

In loving others we demonstrate our love for God. For love fulfills the whole Law.

Does this mean that some things under the Law of Moses are now permissible? Yes. Does it mean that some seemingly innocent and permissible things are now sin? Yes. For love, the agape kind of love, divine love, fulfills the spirit and intent of the whole Law and demands infinitely more. Frankly, the Law of Moses is too low of a standard. It is a pathetic, basement level of carnal righteousness when compared to love, which is the Law of Christ, the Law of Liberty.

Wearing skirts down to your ankles doesn't prove that you love God more than the woman wearing pants. In fact, many women who wear pants love God more than those who only wear skirts and dresses. Head coverings don't prove one loves God more than women who don't wear head coverings. Eating fish on Friday proves nothing. Refusing to eat a ham sandwich or shrimp scampi means nothing. Many who do eat these things love God as much or more than those who don't.

What proves to God how much we love Him? Visiting the orphan and the widow. Feeding the hungry, giving water to those who thirst, clothing the naked, loving one another, loving our enemies, preaching the Gospel...living and loving as a living extension of Jesus Himself.

That is true holiness.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe that either the entire Law is in play, or none of it is in play. Either one must obey the entire Law, or one is elevated in Christ into a Grace that is above the Law.

Now, Grace is not lawlessness. The law of Grace is love. And the commandments of this law are:

1.) Love God with all your being.
2.) Love others as yourself.

In loving others we demonstrate our love for God. For love fulfills the whole Law.

Does this mean that some things under the Law of Moses are now permissible? Yes. Does it mean that some seemingly innocent and permissible things are now sin? Yes. For love, the agape kind of love, divine love, fulfills the spirit and intent of the whole Law and demands infinitely more. Frankly, the Law of Moses is too low of a standard. It is a pathetic, basement level of carnal righteousness when compared to love, which is the Law of Christ, the Law of Liberty.

Wearing skirts down to your ankles doesn't prove that you love God more than the woman wearing pants. In fact, many women who wear pants love God more than those who only wear skirts and dresses. Head coverings don't prove one loves God more than women who don't wear head coverings. Eating fish on Friday proves nothing. Refusing to eat a ham sandwich or shrimp scampi means nothing. Many who do eat these things love God as much or more than those who don't.

What proves to God how much we love Him? Visiting the orphan and the widow. Feeding the hungry, giving water to those who thirst, clothing the naked, loving one another, loving our enemies, preaching the Gospel...living and loving as a living extension of Jesus Himself.

That is true holiness.

I believe you left something out...
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

I believe you left something out...
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Thank you, thank you very much.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

I believe you left something out...
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

And you need a silly list from some dusty Law of Moses to do that? You have Jesus Himself inside you. The Spirit will lead you beyond the Law of Moses. And love will fulfill the whole Law in one fell swoop. You can't name a moral sin that love wouldn't keep one from.

Romans 13:8-10
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; AND IF THERE BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


Galatians 5:14
14 For ALL the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

James 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

And you need a silly list from some dusty Law of Moses to do that? You have Jesus Himself inside you. The Spirit will lead you beyond the Law of Moses. And love will fulfill the whole Law in one fell swoop. You can't name a moral sin that love wouldn't keep one from.

Romans 13:8-10
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; AND IF THERE BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


Galatians 5:14
14 For ALL the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

James 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Aquila that is what shazeep believed, he actually believed that the Gospel was that niceness was your salvation. Isn't that legalism? So instead of cufflinks being preached against, people are browbeaten to LOVE. Feigning love isn't love at all. Making people sick to their stomach to love someone when they haven't gotten there yet, isn't helping them. The Holy Ghost must lead in all things. Some jokers, take off all their clothes and say they're free, they have the law of liberty. Yet, if some poor sorry saint can't exhibit an attribute you all believe to be the fruit of the Spirit? You all start killing them softly in your ecclesiastical shark tank. The Emma Boatanchors of the World pound you into dust, while the ILGs of the world drown you in good intentions. Hence, why Jesus is probably packing His bags and leaving America. Because sadly the most spiritual some of the forum Bible scholars have ever gotten, is the indigestion from dinner on the grounds.

Good grief.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Aquila that is what shazeep believed, he actually believed that the Gospel was that niceness was your salvation. Isn't that legalism?

I don't believe that "niceness" is love. Love looks at sinners and admonishes repentance while also emphasizing grace as it might relate to specific weaknesses. Love will also rebuke legalism and a nasty spirit that judges everyone around them with impunity without any regard for grace or mercy.

So instead of cufflinks being preached against, people are browbeaten to LOVE.

It is never "browbeating" to admonish people to love. I think you'll agree that we are commanded to love many times throughout the Gospels and the Epistles.

Feigning love isn't love at all. Making people sick to their stomach to love someone when they haven't gotten there yet, isn't helping them.

But that's an issue with the one who's stomach turns at the notion of loving another, not the one who admonishes love. In fact, if one's stomach turns as they are encouraged to love... that is a SERIOUS indicator of a deep spiritual issue. There's a good chance they aren't even saved. Because if one truly understands the seriousness of sin and the price that was paid for our salvation, how guilty they are before God, and how badly they do deserve Hell... and how God forgave them and gives them grace... how can they not love others and desire the same for them? So, if one claiming to be born again absolutely cannot love another, even an enemy...their salvation is in jeopardy.

The Holy Ghost must lead in all things. Some jokers, take off all their clothes and say they're free, they have the law of liberty.

Christian Nudists? LOL! They are a strange bunch. I don't make a big deal out of someone going skinny dipping down in the holler, but I don't think that going to church nude is biblical. Christians were specifically called to modesty in public life and during times of worship, women were even admonished to wear head coverings.

Yet, if some poor sorry saint can't exhibit an attribute you all believe to be the fruit of the Spirit? You all start killing them softly in your ecclesiastical shark tank.

Ummm... if one isn't exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit, that's rather serious. The fruit of the Spirit isn't something we can force. It is the natural outflowing of the abiding presence of the Spirit of Jesus. If the fruit of the Spirit isn't flowing, is Jesus truly present? Is His Spirit being quenched? It's an indicator of a problem. And I know that in this area grace preachers can be just as demanding or condemnatory as the most legalistic of preachers. But there is a difference. These are strongly pushing for individuals to be broken vessels through which the Spirit flows, the legalist is just worried about...dress standards and ancient ceremonial holiness codes. If one is going to rebuke another... let it be over quenching, hindering, or grieving the Spirit...not their facial hair, shirt sleeves, jeans, or cufflinks.

The Emma Boatanchors of the World pound you into dust, while the ILGs of the world drown you in good intentions.

LOL! I found this hilarious. (Seriously, sometimes your sarcasm aggravates me, but sometimes I see the humor in it and you crack me up! LOL) But I get your concern bro. I really do. And as with anything, it can go too far. But if someone is going to be rebuked or admonished... let it be over love and good works.... not legalism and ancient arbitrary holiness codes.

Hence, why Jesus is probably packing His bags and leaving America. Because sadly the most spiritual some of the forum Bible scholars have ever gotten, is the indigestion from dinner on the grounds.

I can't make that judgment. I do know that Jesus is longsuffering with His people. Even in the Revelation we see 7 churches and most had serious issues. However, in each church there was a remnant. And His promises are something that said remnant can hold on to. Be encouraged. No matter how bad it looks... there's always a remnant. Wasn't it Elijah who thought he was the only one in Israel who still loved the LORD? And God promised him that He had a remnant of 7,000 who had not bowed their knee to Baal. Be encouraged Elijah. Things aren't as bad as the enemy would like you to believe.

[Esaias]

Some people seem to think that the Bible is a book of suggestions that are to be molded to fit the person's beliefs and opinions, and is like the junk drawer in your kitchen where you occasionally rummage around in and take what you need. But like all junk drawers, it's chock full of old odds and ends that, while peculiar and reminiscent of days gone by, really you have no use for TODAY.

Some folks are going to be mighty surprised, however.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I can't make that judgment. I do know that Jesus is longsuffering with His people.

Jesus' people? So America is Jesus' people? LOL

They can't even figure out what an abomination is and believe Deuteronomy 22:5 only pertains to Caitlin Jenner.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Even in the Revelation we see 7 churches and most had serious issues. However, in each church there was a remnant. And His promises are something that said remnant can hold on to.

Well, guess what, the remnant isn't going to church in a wife beater T shirt, with his wife in a pair of Daisy Dukes.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Be encouraged. No matter how bad it looks

I'm not sweatin it son, if I was the last man standing I wouldn't break a sweat. I know the goodness of God, and seen great things and horrific things happen in my own life. All while serving Jesus Christ. My worst day in the Apostolic Pentecostal Church is better than my best, very best day when I was in the World.

Originally Posted by Aquila

... there's always a remnant.

And it sure ain't a female wearing pants.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Wasn't it Elijah who thought he was the only one in Israel who still loved the LORD?

You mean Elijah who was wearing his "Jesus loves everyone, but I'm His favorite" shirt?

Originally Posted by Aquila

And God promised him that He had a remnant of 7,000 who had not bowed their knee to Baal.

The ones who bowed their knees to Baal were all in unsex attire. Listening to Elton John singing Silent Night. But since they LOVED each other and LOVED all the Sodomites around them. They were thought to be so spiritual. So everyone went to their church gatherings all hugged each other saying how much they LOVED one another. Then went out to the parking lot drove away in their cars ripping each other apart in their minds.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Be encouraged Elijah.

Yes, be encouraged Elijah. Because one day in the far off future everything you fought for will be reduced to nonsense. Where the followers of God will be judged by the LOVE they have for one another in public, and the hidden loathing they have within their hearts. Aquila, politicians kiss babies, and smile, with love you on their lips. Yet, behind closed doors they curse the people and rob them blind. Love isn't what you do when surrounded by the pack, but what you are in the dark. Away from everyone, where the group cannot see you. It is in the marrow of your bones, it is tested when you are havn't an audience.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Things aren't as bad as the enemy would like you to believe.

Oh, was that when he was having a Bible study at Starbucks? When they gave him the Frappuccino instead of the triple venti white Mocha?

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't believe that "niceness" is love. Love looks at sinners and admonishes repentance while also emphasizing grace as it might relate to specific weaknesses. Love will also rebuke legalism and a nasty spirit that judges everyone around them with impunity without any regard for grace or mercy.

Your spirit can get just as nasty, maybe even more so? You see the guy and gal wearing the Ultra Con attire is an easy target. The guy and gal dressed like the rest of the population blends in with the crowd.

Originally Posted by Aquila

It is never "browbeating" to admonish people to love. I think you'll agree that we are commanded to love many times throughout the Gospels and the Epistles.

Love is a fruit of the Holy Ghost, it is the same God love that was in the Old Testament. Nothing changed, the same God pouring fire and brimstone on the Sodomites, was the same who is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the World. No one loves on command. Making people feel like garbage because they aren't as much as a glad hander as you. Is just as bad as making one feel like garbage because they are forced to look like they walked out of Hazelwood Missouri.

Originally Posted by Aquila

But that's an issue with the one who's stomach turns at the notion of loving another, not the one who admonishes love. In fact, if one's stomach turns as they are encouraged to love... that is a SERIOUS indicator of a deep spiritual issue. There's a good chance they aren't even saved. Because if one truly understands the seriousness of sin and the price that was paid for our salvation, how guilty they are before God, and how badly they do deserve Hell... and how God forgave them and gives them grace... how can they not love others and desire the same for them? So, if one claiming to be born again absolutely cannot love another, even an enemy...their salvation is in jeopardy.

I rest my case.

If you were REALLY SAVED!

If you were REALLY REALLY SAVED,you would do X Y and Z

Every single religion and schism from Dan to Beersheba sings the same song. Whether it's no male attire on a female, or sticky sweet love bombing preachers. You see the ultra con to you is just Joan Crawford in Mommy Dearest beating the snot out of the sheep. He is slicing the flesh off the saints of God, roasting their children in front of the eyes of the parents. While that might happen somewhere sometimes. The same things happen in a church where they have no standards. Listen friend, Jim Jones didn't have standards but he had sweet LOVE messages. He would burn ultraconservative preachers from his pulpit. Blast what he precieved to be the starchy religious. Moses David Berg leader of the Children of God, didn't have standards of attire. He would rip up anyone who said that Deuteronomy 22:5 was applicable today. But, he preached LOVE, sweet sugary love and beads to the 1960s Jesus Freaks. He made a mess out of his people and their children.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Christian Nudists? LOL! They are a strange bunch. I don't make a big deal out of someone going skinny dipping down in the holler, but I don't think that going to church nude is biblical. Christians were specifically called to modesty in public life and during times of worship, women were even admonished to wear head coverings.

I wasn't talking about nudists. Just my sarcasm for the Liberals who dump standards of attire but replace those standards with their idea of LOVE.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

In loving others we demonstrate our love for God. For love fulfills the whole Law.

When you use the Greek word ἀγάπη what do YOU mean?

Originally Posted by Aquila

Does this mean that some things under the Law of Moses are now permissible?

OK what in the below verses are NOW permissible?

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is ABOMINATION.

Leviticus 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an ABOMINATION: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Deuteronomy 22:5

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are
ABOMINATION unto the LORD thy God.

Proverbs 6:16-19

These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an ABOMINATION unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 11:20

They that are of a froward heart are ABOMINATION to the LORD: but such as are upright in their way are his delight.

Proverbs 12:22

Lying lips are ABOMINATION to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.

Proverbs 15:26

The thoughts of the wicked are an ABOMINATION to the LORD: but the words of the pure are pleasant words.


Proverbs 15:8

The sacrifice of the wicked is an ABOMINATION to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Proverbs 16:5

Every one that is proud in heart is an ABOMINATION to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Proverbs 17:15

He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are ABOMINATION to the LORD.

Proverbs 20:10

Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike ABOMINATION to the LORD.

Proverbs 28:9

He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be ABOMINATION.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes. Does it mean that some seemingly innocent and permissible things are now sin? Yes.

What was seemingly innocent in the list I offered you?

Aquila, do you like to win at board games?

Originally Posted by Aquila

For love, the agape kind of love, divine love, fulfills the spirit and intent of the whole Law and demands infinitely more. Frankly, the Law of Moses is too low of a standard. It is a pathetic, basement level of carnal righteousness when compared to love, which is the Law of Christ, the Law of Liberty.

But, it is said in the book of Acts that God once looked the other way at man's stupidity, but NOW He demands all to repent. The Law was just the slave who brought the youth to the teacher. So actually the law brought the Judean to Messiah. The Judean, not the New Jerseyite, but the Judean/Israelite who then taught the Greek. What you all believe the law to be isn't what the first century believer understood the law to be. Hence some of you guys end up in a gospel of inclusion, or full blown antinomianism.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Wearing skirts down to your ankles doesn't prove that you love God more than the woman wearing pants.

Neither does feeding the poor, or other good deeds.

Originally Posted by Aquila

In fact, many women who wear pants love God more than those who only wear skirts and dresses.

Get out of town, bro! Then here comes the ones who wear only dresses, "in fact, many women who wear dresses down to the floor love God more than those who only wear pants." Or the ones who are Muslims, "in fact, many women who are Muslim love God more than those who are Christians."

Originally Posted by Aquila

Head coverings don't prove one loves God more than women who don't wear head coverings. Eating fish on Friday proves nothing. Refusing to eat a ham sandwich or shrimp scampi means nothing. Many who do eat these things love God as much or more than those who don't.

Bro, you must think that everyone is an idiot, and are mindless slaves being led by legalistic ecclesiastical vampires. smh

Originally Posted by Aquila

What proves to God how much we love Him? Visiting the orphan and the widow. Feeding the hungry, giving water to those who thirst, clothing the naked, loving one another, loving our enemies, preaching the Gospel...living and loving as a living extension of Jesus Himself.

That is true holiness.

Bro, I know scores of people who are LEGALISTICALLY doing all the above.

Biggest hypocrites who ever walked in shoe leather. Funny thing is the homeless, and unchurched all know it. They go down to the homeless in the city of Fort Lauderdale, do their good deeds, tell them be warmed and fed, but give them nothing.

Bro, one day you will see what is behind the curtain, and I hope you all can deal with it.