Submission? Or Power and Control?

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I have been taught what ILG posts below. I have never read anyone specifically use scripture to back up or refute this claim on FCF, NFCF nor AFF.

On a bit of a side note: So, yesterday, and again today, I was viewing Ben Shapiro debate Cenk Uygur (Bernie Sanders supporter) on a new platform called Politicon in Los Angeles. At the end of the debate Twitter took a poll and Shapiro won by 95%.

I think that we, as Conservatives, need to adopt Ben's platform - "Facts don't care about your feelings."

One of the liberals (college student, hence the wording) listening to the event stated, "Dude, Ben Shapiro is actually pretty smart. I love how everything is centered in logic. I disagree with some of the things he says, but I find myself agreeing with him on other stuff."

So, I would like to emulate Brother Blume who comes to mind. He is the foremost poster who puts out scripture and facts without insult or injury, and I like that.

Someone needs to line out the scripture text, if it is there, on this one particular part - Is the "glory" of the angel's wings covering the Ark of the Covenant a type and shadow of the woman's long hair being her covering in the NT? I suppose some will say, "No, it is a headcovering". Regardless, is it a type and shadow, because I have heard, for myself, Anthony Mangun say that he believes that to be true?

My take on I Corinthians 11 is that verse 10, "For this cause..." points back to the order of creation and has nothing to do with the hair on our head. I believe that Daniel Segraves holds that view as well. We get to verses 14 and 15, which then gets into gender distinction on length.

BDB lines out which actual Hebrew word identifies with any given OT reference. I don't know a source that does that for the Greek in the NT. Thayers lays out 4 definitions and so I don't know which one is applicable to the passage for "power" in I Cor. 11:10

PO - as before stated, ILG does not want an honest debate.
Notice that she did not dispute my statement or ndavids that she is vehemently anti-UPC.
So, I see no point in engaging with her.
Now, let me say that the entire uncut hair equals special favor with God thing is not my viewpoint.
I do believe that there is power in submission and obedience, even for men.
But, ILG's entire focus is to spread doubt and disbelief in ANY doctrine espoused by the UPC.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

PO - as before stated, ILG does not want an honest debate.
Notice that she did not dispute my statement or ndavids that she is vehemently anti-UPC.
So, I see no point in engaging with her.
Now, let me say that the entire uncut hair equals special favor with God thing is not my viewpoint.
I do believe that there is power in submission and obedience, even for men.
But, ILG's entire focus is to spread doubt and disbelief in ANY doctrine espoused by the UPC.

I am probably speaking for ILG, but I believe that she doesn't want to engage in statements and neither do I. I want cold, hard, Biblical truth backed by scripture. Even if I don't believe or agree, I want scripture.

Why do you believe this and can you back it up? "ILG, I don't agree with this because I believe the scriptures are clear..." That seems relatively easy.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I am probably speaking for ILG, but I believe that she doesn't want to engage in statements and neither do I. I want cold, hard, Biblical truth backed by scripture. Even if I don't believe or agree, I want scripture.

Why do you believe this and can you back it up? "ILG, I don't agree with this because I believe the scriptures are clear..." That seems relatively easy.

Thanks PO. What I have no interest in is in defending myself against attacks. I used to do it but it became very emotionally exhausting. When I see that a person doesn't want real discussion but wants to attack and belittle, I simply avoid the person posting. If I were in the position of believing uncut hair, and felt it was so important, I would try and explain the position for those reading, no matter what I thought of the original poster.

[n david]

Originally Posted by ILG

When I see that a person doesn't want real discussion but wants to attack and belittle, I simply avoid the person posting.

Ironic, considering almost every single thread you've created was to attack and belittle the UPC and its ministers/authors.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by n david

Ironic, considering almost every single thread you've created was to attack and belittle the UPC and its ministers/authors.

I didn't attack anyone. I simply stated my opinion that what is taught about submission is really about power and control and backed up my opinion with actual quotes. I have done this with all the essays I've written. Anyone is welcome to defend anything pro or con.

[ILG]

Disagreement does not equal attack.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ILG

Thanks PO. What I have no interest in is in defending myself against attacks. I used to do it but it became very emotionally exhausting. When I see that a person doesn't want real discussion but wants to attack and belittle, I simply avoid the person posting. If I were in the position of believing uncut hair, and felt it was so important, I would try and explain the position for those reading, no matter what I thought of the original poster.

That is also Ben Shapiro's point - "When the Left uses "intersectionality" as validation of their arguments, it is the conservative's duty to disregard their character-based arguments."

Shapiro uses this view in politics, but we could also use this in Christian debate as well.

[n david]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

PO - as before stated, ILG does not want an honest debate.
Notice that she did not dispute my statement or ndavids that she is vehemently anti-UPC.
So, I see no point in engaging with her.

Most of her threads are rants against UPC officials/authors. I'm not interested in debate, especially when the post is written as a statement for an anti-UPC group.

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Now, let me say that the entire uncut hair equals special favor with God thing is not my viewpoint.
I do believe that there is power in submission and obedience, even for men.
But, ILG's entire focus is to spread doubt and disbelief in ANY doctrine espoused by the UPC.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

PO - as before stated, ILG does not want an honest debate.
Notice that she did not dispute my statement or ndavids that she is vehemently anti-UPC.
So, I see no point in engaging with her.
Now, let me say that the entire uncut hair equals special favor with God thing is not my viewpoint.
I do believe that there is power in submission and obedience, even for men.
But, ILG's entire focus is to spread doubt and disbelief in ANY doctrine espoused by the UPC.