Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Sean

Originalist, what is your plan when he makes war with you and overcomes you, also forbids you to buy or sell?

I mean, what is your plan?

Here is the result of pre trib teaching. No vision or faith to trust God in the evil times. So what are these POOR TRIBULATION saints going to do when the mark is forced on them?

They will die for the Lord Jesus amen? If they....by your theory are willing to die for Jesus as second class second chance saved Christians how about the true bride of Jesus?

Would THEY forsake Jesus in fear? The terrible truth is that many have been set up by pre trib heresy so that when suffering for his name becomes real they will flee from Jesus in terror! Thus a great falling away.

Sean we are trying to open some of the eyes of pre tribbers that they might get a vision that sustains their faith in the worst of times. Millions have been slain for this glorious name of Jesus already.

Why? Because they loved Jesus more than their own lives. They found the secret of the Christian life.

THY LOVINGKINDNESS IS BETTER THAN LIFE.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Here is the result of pre trib teaching. No vision or faith to trust God in the evil times. So what are these POOR TRIBULATION saints going to do when the mark is forced on them?

They will die for the Lord Jesus amen? If they....by your theory are willing to die for Jesus as second class second chance saved Christians how about the true bride of Jesus?

Would THEY forsake Jesus in fear? The terrible truth is that many have been set up by pre trib heresy so that when suffering for his name becomes real they will flee from Jesus in terror! Thus a great falling away.

Sean we are trying to open some of the eyes of pre tribbers that they might get a vision that sustains their faith in the worst of times. Millions have been slain for this glorious name of Jesus already.

Why? Because they loved Jesus more than their own lives. They found the secret of the Christian life.

THY LOVINGKINDNESS IS BETTER THAN LIFE.

All this "wife beater" garbage and the various Seanisms are an insult to every believer who ever had to endure tribulation and persecution for the Word of God. American Christianity is in full blown apostasy.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Esaias

All this "wife beater" garbage and the various Seanisms are an insult to every believer who ever had to endure tribulation and persecution for the Word of God. American Christianity is in full blown apostasy.

I was thinking the same thing. Sean came across like a mocking lunatic for berating those who will and have suffered for Christ. And this accusation that we WANT to suffer, or are looking for a martyr's death. What a complete lunatic. I guess he must be watching Kenneth Copeland or something, learning that children of God who suffer don't have God's favor or have a lack of faith. Total and complete garbage. Sean will take the mark, as you said, because his pretrib view won't let him believe that i is actually the mark of the beast he is taking. Pre cultism.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Esaias

All this "wife beater" garbage and the various Seanisms are an insult to every believer who ever had to endure tribulation and persecution for the Word of God. American Christianity is in full blown apostasy.

Originally Posted by Originalist

I was thinking the same thing. Sean came across like a mocking lunatic for berating those who will and have suffered for Christ. And this accusation that we WANT to suffer, or are looking for a martyr's death. What a complete lunatic. I guess he must be watching Kenneth Copeland or something, learning that children of God who suffer don't have God's favor or have a lack of faith. Total and complete garbage. Sean will take the mark, as you said, because his pretrib view won't let him believe that i is actually the mark of the beast he is taking. Pre cultism.

Again, and this isn't hard:

Persecution, trials and tribulation for the Word of God or for His Name sake is NOT the same as the Great Tribulation of Revelation.

The former is wrath of men.
The latter is the wrath of God.

Once again - people past and present who have suffered persecution for His name, suffered the wrath of men, not God.

Those here during the Great Tribulation written about in Revelation will be suffering the wrath of God, not man.

If you can't understand this, I don't know what to tell you.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Esaias

All this "wife beater" garbage and the various Seanisms are an insult to every believer who ever had to endure tribulation and persecution for the Word of God. American Christianity is in full blown apostasy.

Seanism.....hmmm, I like that.

Are you thinking of becoming a Seanist now?....LOL

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Here is the result of pre trib teaching. No vision or faith to trust God in the evil times. So what are these POOR TRIBULATION saints going to do when the mark is forced on them?

They will die for the Lord Jesus amen? If they....by your theory are willing to die for Jesus as second class second chance saved Christians how about the true bride of Jesus?

Would THEY forsake Jesus in fear? The terrible truth is that many have been set up by pre trib heresy so that when suffering for his name becomes real they will flee from Jesus in terror! Thus a great falling away.

Sean we are trying to open some of the eyes of pre tribbers that they might get a vision that sustains their faith in the worst of times. Millions have been slain for this glorious name of Jesus already.

Why? Because they loved Jesus more than their own lives. They found the secret of the Christian life.

THY LOVINGKINDNESS IS BETTER THAN LIFE.

Very well spoken Michael, but your proposal is not Biblical.

No pre-tribber thinks they will not face at least the beginning of the Tribulation.....



So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.



The Great Tribulation will be knocking at the door when the Bridegroom calls His virgins.

They will all be asleep(unworthy), but those that have not let the oil run out of their lamps(Spirit led), will be removed.

In the case of the flood, the water that carried Noah to safety(salvation) destroyed the lost.

In the case of the return of the Bridegroom, the Lord that takes His church to safety is the destroyer of the lost.....




16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?



I hope that you can see the 2 fold aspect of the coming of Christ someday, bro.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Sean

Very well spoken Michael, but your proposal is not Biblical.

No pre-tribber thinks they will not face at least the beginning of the Tribulation.....



So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.



The Great Tribulation will be knocking at the door when the Bridegroom calls His virgins.

They will all be asleep(unworthy), but those that have not let the oil run out of their lamps(Spirit led), will be removed.

In the case of the flood, the water that carried Noah to safety(salvation) destroyed the lost.

In the case of the return of the Bridegroom, the Lord that takes His church to safety is the destroyer of the lost.....




16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?



I hope that you can see the 2 fold aspect of the coming of Christ someday, bro.

I started my walk as a pre trib Sean so I have already been where you want me to be.

What I wonder is about this:

In the case of the flood, the water that carried Noah to safety(salvation) destroyed the lost.

Dont you see that Noah did not need to be taken to Heaven to be preserved by YAH? He was still right here on Earth even tho it was destroyed. Cant get much worse than the world being destroyed! And yet YAH did not remove Noah from the Earth but rather showed his power to deliver by keeping him here all the way through the flood.

Then the other thing where pre trib fails dramatically is that when the flood came IT WAS TO LATE FOR ANYONE TO BE SAVED!

Everyone else on Earth died. And yet........second chance salvation is THE ONLY BASIS whereby the pre trib rapture is allowed to stand.

It absolutely fails the test using the days of Noah as a type. Jesus did not give the type to give hope to sinners once he comes they can still be saved.

The warning he gave was if you miss his coming THE DOOR IS SHUT!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I started my walk as a pre trib Sean so I have already been where you want me to be.

What I wonder is about this:



Dont you see that Noah did not need to be taken to Heaven to be preserved by YAH? He was still right here on Earth even tho it was destroyed. Cant get much worse than the world being destroyed! And yet YAH did not remove Noah from the Earth but rather showed his power to deliver by keeping him here all the way through the flood.

Then the other thing where pre trib fails dramatically is that when the flood came IT WAS TO LATE FOR ANYONE TO BE SAVED!

Everyone else on Earth died. And yet........second chance salvation is THE ONLY BASIS whereby the pre trib rapture is allowed to stand.

It absolutely fails the test using the days of Noah as a type. Jesus did not give the type to give hope to sinners once he comes they can still be saved.

The warning he gave was if you miss his coming THE DOOR IS SHUT!

Michael....God in Gen., shut the door on the Ark.

God shut the door in Matt 25 and LEFT half the virgins behind.

God did not take the bad virgins, but the good ones.

You do see that, right?


It was in the exact same discourse as Matt 24, right?


One taken...the other left.

5 virgins taken...5 left.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Sean

Michael....God in Gen., shut the door on the Ark.

God shut the door in Matt 25 and LEFT half the virgins behind.

God did not take the bad virgins, but the good ones.

You do see that, right?


It was in the exact same discourse as Matt 24, right?


One taken...the other left.

5 virgins taken...5 left.

You must interpret that parable in light of what he said earlier in Matthew 24, where only ONE coming is taught. All the parable of the virgins is saying is that once he returns, it's too late to be saved. You have them eventually being allowed in, which is not the context.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

Michael....God in Gen., shut the door on the Ark.

God shut the door in Matt 25 and LEFT half the virgins behind.

God did not take the bad virgins, but the good ones.

You do see that, right?


It was in the exact same discourse as Matt 24, right?


One taken...the other left.... Matt 24.

5 virgins taken...5 left.....Matt 25

Again.