The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Can you elaborate?

loud disruptive false to tongues that manifest to sidetrack or drown out what is going on. Its not that it drives God away....its just that Ive seen people submit to and accept these manifestations that are very out of order.

Im not saying its in every church but I have seen it in some churches Ive attended.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

loud disruptive false to tongues that manifest to sidetrack or drown out what is going on. Its not that it drives God away....its just that Ive seen people submit to and accept these manifestations that are very out of order.

Im not saying its in every church but I have seen it in some churches Ive attended.

Considering 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14 and Paul's correction of abuses regarding speaking in tongues, don't you think it odd that he never said "some of this stuff going on is demonic"? Rather, people simply weren't operating properly "as a team", causing disorder. The solution wasn't casting out demons, but proper teaching.

Thoughts?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Considering 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14 and Paul's correction of abuses regarding speaking in tongues, don't you think it odd that he never said "some of this stuff going on is demonic"? Rather, people simply weren't operating properly "as a team", causing disorder. The solution wasn't casting out demons, but proper teaching.

Thoughts?

Well, Paul did write about "no one speaking by the Spirit calls Jesus accursed", so there may have been some activity whereby some were claiming to prophesy in which they were cursing Jesus in some manner or form, and claiming it was by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Maybe some false brethren had infiltrated Corinth, since the church there began as a synagogue?

All speculation, of course...

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Well, Paul did write about "no one speaking by the Spirit calls Jesus accursed", so there may have been some activity whereby some were claiming to prophesy in which they were cursing Jesus in some manner or form, and claiming it was by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Maybe some false brethren had infiltrated Corinth, since the church there began as a synagogue?

All speculation, of course...

I think it was likely certain Jews trying to teach that Jesus was not the Messiah but was "cursed of God" (just as Judaism teaches today), and Paul had to reaffirm hat the Spirit of God does NOT inspire someone to call Jesus accursed (in the sense that He is rejected by God).

Either that or there was, even at that early date, a teaching going around similar to the Kenneth Copeland/Word of Faith heresy that Jesus went to hell and literally became sin itself, but I'm not so sure that would be the case.

But in either case, Paul never mentioned the need for exorcisms in a meeting of the ekklesia due to people "getting out of hand". Every case of exorcism in Scripture involves people who are clearly not Christians.

If you are filled with the Holy Ghost you aren't going to be "manifesting demons". That is simply NOT Bible.

Of course, I suspect not all who claim to be spirit filled are filled with the Holy Spirit.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I think it was likely certain Jews trying to teach that Jesus was not the Messiah but was "cursed of God" (just as Judaism teaches today), and Paul had to reaffirm hat the Spirit of God does NOT inspire someone to call Jesus accursed (in the sense that He is rejected by God).

Either that or there was, even at that early date, a teaching going around similar to the Kenneth Copeland/Word of Faith heresy that Jesus went to hell and literally became sin itself, but I'm not so sure that would be the case.

But in either case, Paul never mentioned the need for exorcisms in a meeting of the ekklesia due to people "getting out of hand". Every case of exorcism in Scripture involves people who are clearly not Christians.

If you are filled with the Holy Ghost you aren't going to be "manifesting demons". That is simply NOT Bible.

Of course, I suspect not all who claim to be spirit filled are filled with the Holy Spirit.

The closest anyone might point to is 1 John 5:18,

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not, but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

If a believer has "let himself go" (as opposed to keeping himself), it may be construed that the wicked one begins to be able to touch him, as it were. And should that take place, in an assembly of saints, something more than simply "out of hand" might take place.

Again, conjecture only.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

The closest anyone might point to is 1 John 5:18,

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not, but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

If a believer has "let himself go" (as opposed to keeping himself), it may be construed that the wicked one begins to be able to touch him, as it were. And should that take place, in an assembly of saints, something more than simply "out of hand" might take place.

Again, conjecture only.

Well, in the book of Job we see that it wasnt that God put Job in the hands of Satan, but that Job had broken his own hedge.

Satan brought up the hedge and God merely states the obvious,"He is in thine hand."

It doesnt say that God dropped the hedge, God just stated the obvious.

Job broke his hedge through fear, it says in Job 3:25-26 25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.

26 I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.



Yes we can step out of the protection of God and the enemy can be touch us not because God is unfaithful or God sics the enemy on us.

James says"In Him is no darkness, neither is there shadow of turning."

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

The closest anyone might point to is 1 John 5:18,

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not, but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

If a believer has "let himself go" (as opposed to keeping himself), it may be construed that the wicked one begins to be able to touch him, as it were. And should that take place, in an assembly of saints, something more than simply "out of hand" might take place.

Again, conjecture only.

Sounds like John is saying the believer keeps himself and does not sin, not that a believer can "let himself go" and then foam at the mouth in church.

Honestly, I think we just have a modern day version of superstition and attraction to scary boo stories. I noticed in this thread not one example in the Bible of a church meeting being interrupted by demonic manifestations of overly loud tongues.

What do people think will be the end result of telling the church "some tongues and prophesyings are demonic"? People will be afraid to allow themselves to be used, and all the gifts will soon be limited to the performers on the platform, where they will all mysteriously confirm the need to put more money in the offering plate.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Sounds like John is saying the believer keeps himself and does not sin, not that a believer can "let himself go" and then foam at the mouth in church.

Honestly, I think we just have a modern day version of superstition and attraction to scary boo stories. I noticed in this thread not one example in the Bible of a church meeting being interrupted by demonic manifestations of overly loud tongues.

What do people think will be the end result of telling the church "some tongues and prophesyings are demonic"? People will be afraid to allow themselves to be used, and all the gifts will soon be limited to the performers on the platform, where they will all mysteriously confirm the need to put more money in the offering plate.

I think that is a poorly constructed straw man argument when we are instructed to "try the spirits and see if they be of God." I am in no way supporting cessationism and dont believe that exercising discernment and setting error to truth will result in some sort of demon/witch hunt.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Sounds like John is saying the believer keeps himself and does not sin, not that a believer can "let himself go" and then foam at the mouth in church.

Honestly, I think we just have a modern day version of superstition and attraction to scary boo stories. I noticed in this thread not one example in the Bible of a church meeting being interrupted by demonic manifestations of overly loud tongues.

What do people think will be the end result of telling the church "some tongues and prophesyings are demonic"? People will be afraid to allow themselves to be used, and all the gifts will soon be limited to the performers on the platform, where they will all mysteriously confirm the need to put more money in the offering plate.

Yes but there are some false tongues (when the flesh speaks) and some demonic too. I saw this with my own eyes!
Sure we dont have to panic our self over spiritual gifts but we should at least have some discerning of spirits.

Look those people speak in tongues (i dont say that is Satanic, but i just dont believe is from God too.)
look after 3:33

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What do people think will be the end result of telling the church "some tongues and prophesyings are demonic"? People will be afraid to allow themselves to be used, and all the gifts will soon be limited to the performers on the platform, where they will all mysteriously confirm the need to put more money in the offering plate.

Good point.