Do we have to pay tithes?

[n david]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

While it's true He did say that, that wasn't all he said.

"YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE SAVED IF YOU DON'T PAY YOUR TITHE!"

Please explain what that means. One doesn't need a degree to understand what he's saying, but apparently you believe this doesn't mean what I believe it to mean. So, please, explain what this means.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by n david

"YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE SAVED IF YOU DON'T PAY YOUR TITHE!"

Please explain what that means. One doesn't need a degree to understand what he's saying, but apparently you believe this doesn't mean what I believe it to mean. So, please, explain what this means.

What else did he say? He said "Not paying tithes is robbing God (Malachi 3:9)+thieves can't inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)= "You're not going to be saved if you don't pay your tithe" correct?

[1ofthechosen]

So start at 121:06 to 122:51 that's the full context of what he's saying.

[n david]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

So start at 121:06 to 122:51 that's the full context of what he's saying.

I get the context. I listened to a couple minutes before and the screaming which ensued after, and he did come right out and say CLEARLY

"You are not going to be saved if you don't pay your tithe."

Period.

Tell me, if a person isn't going to be saved if they don't pay tithe, what will happen to them? Is there some lesser Heaven they go to?

You're trying to claim that he didn't mean hellfire and damnation if a person just didn't pay tithe -- that he meant what would bring hellfire and damnation is stealing from God.

Semantics. You're channeling Aquila, trying to wiggle a new meaning out of what was clearly stated.

Riggen says not paying tithe is the same as stealing from God. He screamed over and over that a person was a thief for not paying tithe.

"You are not going to be saved if you don't pay your tithe." Please explain what "not going to be saved" means.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by n david

I get the context. I listened to a couple minutes before and the screaming which ensued after, and he did come right out and say CLEARLY

"You are not going to be saved if you don't pay your tithe."

Period.

Tell me, if a person isn't going to be saved if they don't pay tithe, what will happen to them? Is there some lesser Heaven they go to?

You're trying to claim that he didn't mean hellfire and damnation if a person just didn't pay tithe -- that he meant what would bring hellfire and damnation is stealing from God.

Semantics. You're channeling Aquila, trying to wiggle a new meaning out of what was clearly stated.

Riggen says not paying tithe is the same as stealing from God. He screamed over and over that a person was a thief for not paying tithe.

"You are not going to be saved if you don't pay your tithe." Please explain what "not going to be saved" means.

But if Malachi 3:9 does mean it's robbery against God to not pay tithes and offerings then. Then 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 does apply and the Bible says a thief can not inherit the kingdom of God. And that's clearly what is stated, if anybody is twisting anything you are because anyone can go listen to 121:06 to to 122:50 and it says exactly what I said. But you pulled out one thing as the same as when Jesus told the Cannanite woman "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." While Jesus did say that, that's not all that's said.

While you may argue Brother Riggen misinterpreted a scripture, therefore he's drawing a wrong conclusion scripturally. You can't say he was just saying "you don't pay your tithe you will go to hell." That would mean he made that statement, and nothing before it or after it. Anybody can listen to the video from 121:06 to 122:50 and get the full story. But even Gill said "Gill: "even this whole nation; the sin was become general, and therefore a general judgment was inflicted on them: Grotius thinks, that the people seeing the priests withhold the tithes from the Levites, they refused to pay them to them, and so the sin became universal. Kimchi observes, that in other sins charged upon the nation, the people were not all alike guilty, but in this which respected the tithes and offerings they were. "

So the scholars are saying the same thing. While Gill believed "that the moral law is a rule of life and a conversation to believers; not a rule to obtain life by; but to live according to, to guide their feet, to direct their steps, and to preserve them from going into bye and crooked paths."

But the scholars are saying the same thing as far as the interpretation of Malachi 3:9. So you can pull out a statement that was made, but that's not where the argument lies.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

But if Malachi 3:9 does mean it's robbery against God to not pay tithes and offerings then. Then 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 does apply and the Bible says a thief can not inherit the kingdom of God. And that's clearly what is stated, if anybody is twisting anything you are because anyone can go listen to 121:06 to to 122:50 and it says exactly what I said. But you pulled out one thing as the same as when Jesus told the Cannanite woman "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." While Jesus did say that, that's not all that's said.

While you may argue Brother Riggen misinterpreted a scripture, therefore he's drawing a wrong conclusion scripturally. You can't say he was just saying "you don't pay your tithe you will go to hell." That would mean he made that statement, and nothing before it or after it.

And you missed the deeper premise of Aquila's post.

There was once a grand old Victorian home in the town where I lived. It fell into disrepair. Vagrants kept trying to sleep in it. So, no trespassing signs were put up by the city. Thus, it became a violation of the law for vagrants to break-in and try to sleep there. Later, the home was destroyed and made into a park, thus making the no trespassing law void concerning the home, as it no longer existed. The law was a matter of public record and valid. The law lost its validity when what it was designed to protect no longer existed. If I tell someone that it is a violation of the law to trespass in that home, they are naturally going to think, "what home?" It is the same with tithing. To tell someone they are robbing God by not paying their tithes now makes no sense , because there are no more tithes to steal from. It would also be akin to charging someone with tax evasion over a tax that was ended 2000 years ago.

[n david]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

But if Malachi 3:9 does mean it's robbery against God to not pay tithes and offerings then. Then 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 does apply and the Bible says a thief can not inherit the kingdom of God. And that's clearly what is stated, if anybody is twisting anything you are because anyone can go listen to 121:06 to to 122:50 and it says exactly what I said. But you pulled out one thing as the same as when Jesus told the Cannanite woman "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." While Jesus did say that, that's not all that's said.

While you may argue Brother Riggen misinterpreted a scripture, therefore he's drawing a wrong conclusion scripturally. You can't say he was just saying "you don't pay your tithe you will go to hell." That would mean he made that statement, and nothing before it or after it.

Are you running for some political office?

You are really putting some spin on this.

x + y = z, right?

He said "you're not going to be saved if you don't pay your tithe," we both agree, right?

You're arguing semantics. You're trying to justify that comment and say, "well he only meant if you're stealing from God." Yet Riggen establishes very clearly (and LOUDLY) that he believes a person is a thief if they don't pay their tithe.

You never answered my question: Please explain what "not going to be saved" means.

Tell me, if a person isn't going to be saved if they don't pay tithe, what will happen to them? Is there some lesser Heaven they go to?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by n david

Are you running for some political office?

You are really putting some spin on this.

x + y = z, right?

He said "you're not going to be saved if you don't pay your tithe," we both agree, right?

You're arguing semantics. You're trying to justify that comment and say, "well he only meant if you're stealing from God." Yet Riggen establishes very clearly (and LOUDLY) that he believes a person is a thief if they don't pay their tithe.

You never answered my question: Please explain what "not going to be saved" means.

Tell me, if a person isn't going to be saved if they don't pay tithe, what will happen to them? Is there some lesser Heaven they go to?

Look above!! Sorry revised it.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by n david

Are you running for some political office?

You are really putting some spin on this.

x + y = z, right?

He said "you're not going to be saved if you don't pay your tithe," we both agree, right?

You're arguing semantics. You're trying to justify that comment and say, "well he only meant if you're stealing from God." Yet Riggen establishes very clearly (and LOUDLY) that he believes a person is a thief if they don't pay their tithe.

You never answered my question: Please explain what "not going to be saved" means.

Tell me, if a person isn't going to be saved if they don't pay tithe, what will happen to them? Is there some lesser Heaven they go to?

But if Malachi 3:9 does mean it's robbery against God to not pay tithes and offerings then. Then 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 does apply and the Bible says a thief can not inherit the kingdom of God. And that's clearly what is stated, if anybody is twisting anything you are because anyone can go listen to 121:06 to to 122:50 and it says exactly what I said. But you pulled out one thing as the same as when Jesus told the Cannanite woman "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." While Jesus did say that, that's not all that's said.

While you may argue Brother Riggen misinterpreted a scripture, therefore he's drawing a wrong conclusion scripturally. You can't say he was just saying "you don't pay your tithe you will go to hell." That would mean he made that statement, and nothing before it or after it. Anybody can listen to the video from 121:06 to 122:50 and get the full story. But even Gill said "Gill: "even this whole nation; the sin was become general, and therefore a general judgment was inflicted on them: Grotius thinks, that the people seeing the priests withhold the tithes from the Levites, they refused to pay them to them, and so the sin became universal. Kimchi observes, that in other sins charged upon the nation, the people were not all alike guilty, but in this which respected the tithes and offerings they were. "

So the scholars are saying the same thing. While Gill believed "that the moral law is a rule of life and a conversation to believers; not a rule to obtain life by; but to live according to, to guide their feet, to direct their steps, and to preserve them from going into bye and crooked paths."

But the scholars are saying the same thing as far as the interpretation of Malachi 3:9. So you can pull out a statement that was made, but that's not where the argument lies. If anything was ever robbery of God it still is! That's all anyone is saying. Without that part he wouldn't have said "you don't pay your tithes you won't get saved."

Btw there is but 2 places to go heaven or hell.