Do we have to pay tithes?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Ok I can say we all agree that it's not a requirement; that it of itself will save you or cause you to be lost! But we also established no one has ever threatened hell for not tithing.

No we didn't establish that no one has threatened hell for not tithing. We have evidence that someone HAS threatened hell for not tithing. Let's keep it real.

[n david]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

But we also established no one has ever threatened hell for not tithing.

Uhmm...Greg Riggen says hi. Also, you're not going to be saved if you don't tithe. (1:21:43)

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Pharisees tithed herbs because herbs are by definition, seed bearing plants. The fact that the pharisees tithed herbs has been hailed by some as evidence that, if they were tithing herbs, then they were certainly tithing money. This is not true. The fact that all of these herbs were seed bearing, qualified them to be tithable according to the tithe law as quoted below . . .

Lev.27
[30] And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.

Deut.14
[22] Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

The pharisees were tithing according to the law. This is why Jesus said they ought to do so, because they were still under the law. You will never find any portion of the law that requires, suggests, or even allows, tithing money.

The topic of tithing is like crack cocaine for you. Bro, go back and READ my post slowly. This is what is Ecclesiastical PTSD. Wether is ministerial authority, standards of separation, no tithing, or one of the hundreds of interpretations of the different forms of eschatology. It’s all buzz words, which cause the anti and pro whatever the subject to go postal.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Let's take a closer look. Originalist has mentioned several times that the tithe law would never allow the tithe that is being extorted, or taught today. We are threatened with hell because we are robbing God.

What are we accused of robbing God of ? Ten percent of our net or gross income!

Was our income ever eligible for tithing? No, it never was. So if, as in the case of Brother Riggen, we have someone that is accusing that someone is a robber, when what he says we are accused of stealing was never eligible to be tithed, what we have is a false accusation. There has never been any robbery that has taken place, but there has been only a false accusation of theft.

When someone falsely accuses another, has he not lied? If not it sure comes close. Allow me to quote a scripture . . .


[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

I believe that I remember Brother Riggen quoting this passage in his message. So let's think about this. If Brother Riggen is trying to extort tithes out of his members, at the threat of eternal damnation, and at the promise of being excluded from heaven, Is Brother Riggen not guilty of extortion, thievery, and coveting? Because what he is trying to get out of his members, the law never required them to pay. Would he be as aggressive about extorting tithes from them, if the tithe was wheat, barley and herbs?

Think about it.

Well I can say that I can see what he is saying. Now I can also see what you are saying. So, the same way you can say all those things from 6:9-10 would be correct in one point of view, from the other point of view they are exactly the same.

I believe the truth lies within the motive of the heart on this one. Because anybody doing anything out of selfish gain would be totally in the wrong here. And all those things from 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 would definitely be true about that person.

I will say Brother Riggen has been used mightily by God, I dont believe that is his initiative. But I will say "the love of money, is the root of every kind of evil", so if it is that, it will reveal itself. Everything done in the dark, shall be seen in the light. Don't worry, and don't judge things before the time, brother!

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by n david

Uhmm...Greg Riggen says hi. Also, you're not going to be saved if you don't tithe. (1:21:43)

No he said "Btw no one ever said quote unqoute not paying tithes would send you to hell. Not paying tithes is robbing God (Malachi 3:9)+thieves can't inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)= "go straight to hell". Not just not paying tithes would send you to hell. There was more to it.

Like I've said before quoting him saying just that, is like saying Jesus said "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." While it's true He did say that, that wasn't all he said.

[n david]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

While it's true He did say that, that wasn't all he said.

"YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE SAVED IF YOU DON'T PAY YOUR TITHE!"

Please explain what that means. One doesn't need a degree to understand what he's saying, but apparently you believe this doesn't mean what I believe it to mean. So, please, explain what this means.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by n david

"YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE SAVED IF YOU DON'T PAY YOUR TITHE!"

Please explain what that means. One doesn't need a degree to understand what he's saying, but apparently you believe this doesn't mean what I believe it to mean. So, please, explain what this means.

What else did he say? He said "Not paying tithes is robbing God (Malachi 3:9)+thieves can't inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)= "You're not going to be saved if you don't pay your tithe" correct?

[1ofthechosen]

So start at 121:06 to 122:51 that's the full context of what he's saying.

[n david]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

So start at 121:06 to 122:51 that's the full context of what he's saying.

I get the context. I listened to a couple minutes before and the screaming which ensued after, and he did come right out and say CLEARLY

"You are not going to be saved if you don't pay your tithe."

Period.

Tell me, if a person isn't going to be saved if they don't pay tithe, what will happen to them? Is there some lesser Heaven they go to?

You're trying to claim that he didn't mean hellfire and damnation if a person just didn't pay tithe -- that he meant what would bring hellfire and damnation is stealing from God.

Semantics. You're channeling Aquila, trying to wiggle a new meaning out of what was clearly stated.

Riggen says not paying tithe is the same as stealing from God. He screamed over and over that a person was a thief for not paying tithe.

"You are not going to be saved if you don't pay your tithe." Please explain what "not going to be saved" means.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Aquila

One cannot rob God by not tithing today. The tithe was an agrarian land tax codified under the Law of Moses to sustain the priesthood, the temple, and to provide grain and food for the storehouses of Israel, for the sake of the poor, the widow, the orphan, and the alien. Remember, the priests, who were to partake in the tithes, were not allowed to own property. There was no separation of church and state. The religious system of the OT was entirely supported by the agrarian land tax known as the tithe. By not tithing, the nation robbed God because it deprived the priesthood, the poor, widows, orphans, and the stranger of the most basic human provision, food. It was the death of social compassion, and brought a curse upon the nation.

This system no longer exists. And so, the tithe is impossible to perform in accordance to the Law. Therefore, it is also impossible to be branded a thief for not tithing to a system that doesn't exist.

An argument based on sound hermeneutics ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^