Starbucks and White Guilt

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Whoa there tiger... you're getting all heated and spastic again.

What are you talking about? I am perfectly calm. Why do you always do this? Whenever I post a disagreement, you claim I'm some wild, frothing at the mouth, maniac.

Spastic? No, I don't have cerebral palsy. Do you understand the words you post?

Originally Posted by Aquila

I was told that he was UPCI. But whatever organization he has been affiliated with is irrelevant to the point.

If it's not relevant, why mention it at all? You made it part of the story when you wrote it. If it's not relevant, don't use it. Especially when you don't know personally that it's true.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I can understand your concerns. I'm not asking anyone to "condemn the guy".

Yes, you were. You called the guy "vulgar" and said he used "vulgar" words. You were upset, and still are, that I didn't jump to bash the "vulgar" man.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Now, like I said, I understand your concerns. But, you did something equally as bad. You accused me of lying about the man

Absolutely, I did. And with good reason. You pledged to send me a name via PM because at first I doubted it was true. I didn't flat out call you a liar right away. It was only after you went dark for a couple days, resurfaced and made a few posts while ignoring the post I bumped asking for the name. You also ignored EB and Chosen's posts about sending me a PM.

I even sent you a PM which you ignored and never responded to. After that, yes, I did. Your actions were that of someone not being honest.

Originally Posted by Aquila

You had no problem with condemning me, blasting me, personally attack me, in short, being quite vile towards me.

Let's be clear, had you responded and not ignored multiple posts and PMs, I wouldn't have put you on blast. I almost wonder if you ignored it on purpose, waiting for me to call you out and then play the poor victim as you are now.

Originally Posted by Aquila

There is something in you that wants to be nasty to me. It wants to get vile, accusatory, and downright mean. But none of that is my problem. That is something within you that you're going to have to come to grips with.

You're good. And predictable. You're always the right one. The hero and the victim. Others are the villains. You're multifaceted, deep and incredibly brilliant. Others of us are too dumb to truly understand and appreciate your google-sourced wisdom.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I apologize. I did renege on my statement that I'd give you the man's name. I fully intended to in the heat of the moment. However, I began to think about it. I don't want to be accused of slandering the man, because "HE" wasn't the subject.

Yet you made him the subject by calling him "vulgar" and saying he used "vulgar" words.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I sent the name of the individual's wall the conversation was on, and the name of the man in question to an individual, whose ethics and judgment I trust, who was a part of our discussion.

Don't cry or get upset, but I don't believe you. Even if you did, you did so because you know the person you sent it to will not try to contact the person you blasted here and check the story. You knew I would find the person and contact him. You knew it wouldn't look good on you to be blasting someone behind their back on AFF. That's the real reason you didn't send me the name.

Originally Posted by Aquila

In this way, I did take a step towards fulfilling your request,

Seriously? By claiming you sent the name to someone else, you believe you made good on your pledge to send me the name? That's not how that works.

Originally Posted by Aquila

If you guys want to put this man on blast publically, it won't be me who participates in that action.

You already blasted the man and called him "vulgar." Don't try to pretend you're innocent. You brought him into the discussion, no one else.

As I post this, my Gear watch tells me my heart rate is at a steady 68 bpm. I'm certainly not heated nor "spastic," as you wish to portray me. Were we having a conversation face to face, you could see for yourself that while I am being blunt, I'm very calm. I rarely raise my voice at anyone. I find it most effective speaking in a clear, concise and even voice.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

What are you talking about? I am perfectly calm. Why do you always do this? Whenever I post a disagreement, you claim I'm some wild, frothing at the mouth, maniac.

Because you sound manic. All you're missing are all caps. lol

If it's not relevant, why mention it at all? You made it part of the story when you wrote it. If it's not relevant, don't use it. Especially when you don't know personally that it's true.

Listen to yourself. You're trying to command me what to post and not to post because you can't stop yourself from attacking. lol That's manic. Look, why not allow people to post as they wish to post, and you determine what is relevant or not. Or, maybe stop and ask conversationally?

Yes, you were. You called the guy "vulgar" and said he used "vulgar" words. You were upset, and still are, that I didn't jump to bash the "vulgar" man.

I thought what the man said was vulgar. I don't know him personally. He might have just had a bad day, been moody, low blood sugar, or something. My point was not him. My point was how even good people can lower their standards as part of political hero worship. That is the "Cheetos" that I'm talking about that you keep refusing to see.

Absolutely, I did. And with good reason. You pledged to send me a name via PM because at first I doubted it was true. I didn't flat out call you a liar right away. It was only after you went dark for a couple days, resurfaced and made a few posts while ignoring the post I bumped asking for the name. You also ignored EB and Chosen's posts about sending me a PM.

Love is patient. And, why call anyone a liar if you have no absolute proof that they have lied? Why not just take their word for it, discuss the point made as it was presented, and if they're lying, let it rest on them? For example, I don't know the guy. He might have been lying about his 30+ years of Christian service and ministry. I took him at his word, and examined what he was saying in light of what he claimed about his experience. I would have taken no joy in calling him a lair or trying to "force" him to prove to me he had worn those hats in the church.

But that is how you're approaching me. lol

I even sent you a PM which you ignored and never responded to. After that, yes, I did. Your actions were that of someone not being honest.

That's funny. Because I have been honest to you this entire time. I don't want to slander a man. And why would I want you to contact him and give him the impression that I'm out here bashing him when he would have remained anonymous if not for YOUR desire to identify him and drag him into being the focus??? Chester Cheetah isn't the point. The point is Cheetos are cheesy. lol

I ignored you because I was contemplating what to do. Since my original point was that he remain anonymous and we just examine his statements in light of my concern about how political hero worship can effect us, I felt I should remain true to my original intent. You want to make this about him. I do not. I want to only use something he said to illustrate a point that political hero worship can cause us to compromise our own decency. And that is why in the posts that Amanah posted of mine, I advocating protesting politics in the pulpit. You want to make this about him. Beat the drum, beat the drum, demand his name, and then go and trouble him and lead him to believe someone is slandering him personally. No, that would be unloving of me to allow you to do that. Because you'd drag everyone and their cousin into this to try to do only one thing... distract from and discredit my point. Political hero worship is bad for the church.

Let's be clear, had you responded and not ignored multiple posts and PMs, I wouldn't have put you on blast. I almost wonder if you ignored it on purpose, waiting for me to call you out and then play the poor victim as you are now.

Yes, yes. I'm quite the mastermind. lol

Actually, that's not true. I can't chew gum and walk at the same time. lol

While yes, I was silent as I contemplated what to do. But you, of your own will and accord, chose to "put me on blast" (as you worded it). And still, it was entirely unnecessary. You wanted to lash out. You wanted to sink your teeth into me. You wanted to scream "Liar!" so loud the universe would echo with your indignation. lol But I've not lied to you. And though you've twisted the entire point of what I posted to be something a million miles from my original point, I'm still trying to be kind to you.

I'm in no way a victim. The way I see it, you are. You've fallen victim to whatever it is in you that wants to destroy, discredit, distract from, and revile everything I post. And that isn't my problem. That is your problem. That issue resides in you. That is something that you'll have to resolve with yourself. And you might not like it... because it might challenge you to try to slow down and cease this "attack mode" mindset when you respond to my posts. Until then, I'm just enjoying the forum waiting for you to drop your sword.

You're good. And predictable.

Wait. I thought I was the mastermind who went silent to trick you into lashing out? Now I'm predictable. lol

Why not just stop trying to "You're this..." and "You're that..." me? I mean, what does it do for you anyway? Do you feel better when you say, "You're this..." or "You're that..."? And if it does, why? Do you feel threatened or belittled by what I have to say? Are some of the things I'm writing causing you to experience a cognitive dissonance with regards to some things that you previously felt absolutely certain of? Why must I be this or that? Why not just openly chat about our thoughts and perspectives without you or me being anything derogatory? Wouldn't that be nice?

Until we can get to the place where we can disagree and just chit chat... you're a big fat doody head.

There, now we've both wallowed in the mire a bit. LOL

You're always the right one. The hero and the victim.

Let's think about this for a moment....

Why would I (or anyone else for that matter) post something if I didn't think I was right? I've yet to read anyone post anything that starts out by saying, "Hey, I'm dead wrong, and here's what I think, and why I'm dead wrong!" LOL

And why wouldn't I be the "hero" in my perspective, seeing that I know my intentions and why I've posted what I've posted? I don't feel like a victim. But analytically speaking, you guys do drag things out like Sean Hannity clones trying to "Gotcha!" burn me on some talk radio show. lol In fact, you'll spend 20 pages or more trying to do so. So much so, other posters have often commented that it's not right and that you've abandoned the topic and made the thread an inquisition. And I'm over here like, not really understanding why you're doing it. On the outside, it's almost like something takes a few of you guys over. And I'll admit, some of the tirades have been deeply personal (not so much by you though). But I'm not going to let it get to me. What I will let it do is solidify my conviction that all is not well in the institutional church. Because I've not seen such demonstrations of hatred, reviling, and even railing against another believer anywhere else on the internet. In fact, on most forums, some of the things unloaded that are so personal and off topic would have gotten the person banned from said forum. Only here do they allow such a thing without any open warning or rebuke. I take it that the admins trust that we're big boys and can work out our differences. And I believe their right. It's just going to take more time than I would have imagined. But pain produces pain. Hurt produces hurt. Hurting people... hurt people. So, when I read a tirade that personally eviscerates me... I try to remember to pray for the poster. And when I don't, I look at my own scathing responses and I'm reminded to... pray for myself.

TO BE CONTINUED...

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Because I've not seen such demonstrations of hatred, reviling, and even railing against another believer anywhere else on the internet.

Uhm, did you even read what you posted about the man you called "vulgar."

Pot, meet kettle.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Uhm, did you even read what you posted about the man you called "vulgar."

Pot, meet kettle.

You don't think what was said was a bit vulgar?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You don't think what was said was a bit vulgar?

What I believe is you're a hypocrite who tries to have things both ways.

You cry and whine about me not believing your outrageous story, but then turn around and revile and rail against me, question my mental health and claim I'm possessed.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

What I believe is you're a hypocrite who tries to have things both ways.

See, I asked a question, and you basically swept it aside and went personal. I'll ask it again...

You don't think what was said was a bit vulgar?

You cry and whine about me not believing your outrageous story, but then turn around and revile and rail against me, question my mental health and claim I'm possessed.

I'm not whining or crying. In fact, in almost every instance someone goes personal at me, and when I shoot back... THEY start whining. Again, go back and look at this thread. Look at how between posts 9 and 30 most of the posts directed my way had nothing to do with the topic of the thread... or even the point of what I posted. They were all personal jabs. One by one. But I return a bit and suddenly, you're whining and calling hypocrite? LOL

Bro... maybe in post 10 on this thread you could have stayed on topic. Tell me, why'd you go for the jab? What was it in you that made you feel that you needed to ignore the point of what was written and go personal?

And, what is it that you're hoping to accomplish by going personal? What's the purpose? What's the desired outcome? Why waste the time and ruin what could be good discussions? If you're not even certain why you're racing down this path to make jabs, personal insults, and derogatory remarks, or what you're hoping to accomplish with them... then perhaps this behavior isn't originating from you at all. That's when I often consider other spiritual influences. When you do something nutty, and someone asks, "Why do you do that, what are you wanting to accomplish?", and you are just left wondering, "Why do I do that?" That could be a sign of a bigger issue brewing.