Saved Without A Pastor??

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

This is a wonderful passage of scripture contained in this chapter. Not to diminish from your post, which is excellent, but to add to it, consider the meaning of verse 23 . . .

23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

Isn't this what I have been trying to say? We pile 90% of the honor on the pastors, and the Bible says whichever we consider to be "less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour".

Maybe we should be looking to honor the custodian, but we instead heap all of our honor on the pastor.

Hey, I didn't say it, but I did quote it. It's Bible!!!

Ok who are the sheep and who is the shepherd. In context of 1 Peter 5 Peter is calling himself a elder because he was a Bishop the Apostle of the churches. Writing to the Elders meaning this was written to plural churches for they all were poimen Pastors. Over the sheep. Not everybody is a pastor or shepherd or Elder.

And what I wrote about Revelations was not a commentary but a definition. I showed proof in chapter 2 that was a person it was written to in verse 24 it shows it plainly "BUT UNTO YOU I SAY, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden." Who is the UNTO YOU then?

The word Pastor by definition means "the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church, of the overseers of the Christian assemblies." So stop with the shenanigans, how our you going to refute this?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Ok who are the sheep and who is the shepherd. In context of 1 Peter 5 Peter is calling himself a elder because he was a Bishop the Apostle of the churches. Writing to the Elders meaning this was written to plural churches for they all were poimen Pastors. Over the sheep. Not everybody is a pastor or shepherd or Elder.

And what I wrote about Revelations was not a commentary but a definition. I showed proof in chapter 2 that was a person it was written to in verse 24 it shows it plainly "BUT UNTO YOU I SAY, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden." Who is the UNTO YOU then?

The word Pastor by definition means "the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church, of the overseers of the Christian assemblies." So stop with the shenanigans, how our you going to refute this?

Brother . . .

The word pastor is NOT there. Nor is ANY word that is used in lieu of pastor elsewhere in the Bible. You added it, in spite of the scripture I posted rebuking adding to, or subtracting from the book of Revelation.

I refute the addition AND the assumption that this is a pastor referred to here. You are symbolizing a symbol, then assuming the symbol you symbolized is a symbol for something else. It is confusing just typing it out.

Did you read my example of clear-cut symbolism in my earlier post to you?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Brother . . .

The word pastor is NOT there. Nor is ANY word that is used in lieu of pastor elsewhere in the Bible. You added it, in spite of the scripture I posted rebuking adding to, or subtracting from the book of Revelation.

I refute the addition AND the assumption that this is a pastor referred to here. You are symbolizing a symbol, then assuming the symbol you symbolized is a symbol for something else. It is confusing just typing it out.

Did you read my example of clear-cut symbolism in my earlier post to you?

Angel defines by strong as "a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication a pastor" I added nothing its G32 Strongs Number but explain chapter 218-24. Who is this ":BUT UNTO YOU I SAY, and unto the rest in Thyatira." If I was adding something id have something to worry about, but it says the same thing about those trying to subtract from it so heed your own rebuke.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Brother . . .

The word pastor is NOT there. Nor is ANY word that is used in lieu of pastor elsewhere in the Bible. You added it, in spite of the scripture I posted rebuking adding to, or subtracting from the book of Revelation.

I refute the addition AND the assumption that this is a pastor referred to here. You are symbolizing a symbol, then assuming the symbol you symbolized is a symbol for something else. It is confusing just typing it out.

Did you read my example of clear-cut symbolism in my earlier post to you?

In the book of rev who is being referred to as the angel of the churches?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

In the book of rev who is being referred to as the angel of the churches?

Go read every example but Chapter 2:18-24 shows a distinction. Because a angelic being can't be compromising with false doctrine, and not be in sin. And it's not talking about John so who is it talking about when its says "but unto you I say"? Strongs concordance says plainly pastor or messenger. Apostolic1ness read it close and you tell me. I know your not biased against leadership.

All the Apostles besides John were dead at this point, I told him the NT was written in the times of the Apostles, but this and the book of Hebrews were written later so they convey the plan of having a pastor as we see clearly in Hebrews 13:7 giving the context for verse 17.

The definition of Pastor "Poimen" says enough in Ephesians 4:11 because it denotes authority.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Go read every example but Chapter 2:18-24 shows a distinction. Because a angelic being can't be compromising with false doctrine, and not be in sin. And it's not talking about John so who is it talking about when its says "but unto you I say"? Strongs concordance says plainly pastor or messenger.

So, by your own post here it could be a messenger and NOT a pastor?

Would that be accurate?

Please answer this question!

Is there a 50% chance that you are right?

And a 50% chance that you are wrong?

Would this be fair to say?

Is 50% close enough to establish doctrine?

This is not horseshoes or hand grenades we're talking about here!

Line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little, here a little . . .

Brother, if you are right, you are AT BEST hoping that you have a little, much less a little more. There is no line upon line, except in your imagination. The precept is fantasy. Come on back to reality. You'll sleep better at night. You are wanting this to be true SO badly that you are willing to settle for a 50% chance of a hint of being right?

And of course there is the following . . .

Are ALL messengers pastors?

Or were nearly ALL messengers NOT pastors?

Tell the truth, and stay in the church.

Then there is this . . .

Should I call you on the fact that my Strongs Concordance defines angel as used in this passage as a messenger; esp. an "angel" ; by implication a pastor:- angel, messenger.

You are very close to being deceptive here. You really seem to want to add to the book of Revelation. Be careful!

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

So, by your own post here it could be a messenger and NOT a pastor?

Would that be accurate?

Please answer this question!

Is there a 50% chance that you are right?

And a 50% chance that you are wrong?

Would this be fair to say?

Is 50% close enough to establish doctrine?

This is not horseshoes or hand grenades we're talking about here!

Line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little, here a little . . .

Brother, if you are right, you are AT BEST hoping that you have a little, much less a little more. There is no line upon line, except in your imagination. The precept is fantasy. Come on back to reality. You'll sleep better at night. You are wanting this to be true SO badly that you are willing to settle for a 50% chance of a hint of being right?

And of course there is the following . . .

Are ALL messengers pastors?

Or were nearly ALL messengers NOT pastors?

Tell the truth, and stay in the church.

Then there is this . . .

Should I call you on the fact that my Strongs Concordance defines angel as used in this passage as a messenger; esp. an "angel" ; by implication a pastor:- angel, messenger.

You are very close to being deceptive here. You really seem to want to add to the book of Revelation. Be careful!

Lol you seem to want to take away from it, and you are trying to wiggle your way out. So now your saying he wrote it to the guy doing the announcements huh? I wonder if after that he announced the bake sale?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Lol you seem to want to take away from it, and you are trying to wiggle your way out. So now your saying he wrote it to the guy doing the announcements huh? I wonder if after that he announced the bake sale?

You are wanting to pretend that I am subtracting from the scripture? Show me one word I have left out. You are making this up.

In regards to the bold statement above, I would like you to show where I said this. If you can't show it, I am requesting an apology for your FALSE accusation.

Bake sale? Some body is getting desparate!

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

In the book of rev who is being referred to as the angel of the churches?

I am not sure. The most probable answer is that they are heavenly beings, however, if I said that I know, I would be guilty of doing what I have said you're doing. Making a doctrine based on insufficient information. I don't want to do that.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I am not sure. The most probable answer is that they are heavenly beings, however, if I said that I know, I would be guilty of doing what I have said you're doing. Making a doctrine based on insufficient information. I don't want to do that.

The text will explain it. It leaves no wonder for you. You are denying the obvious just like last time... Its alright simple fact is you cant be saved without a Pastor because you are outside of the body otherwise. The bible is plain there are those who have rule over you. Only in these modern days do we struggle with leadership. That's all the spirit of this age the mystery of iniquity works.