Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen
I mean the whole argument is really about authority. Hebrews 13:7 says "Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation." What's in bold is the subject for verse 17 "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." |
1. You really need to learn the definition of what
rule means in this context.
2. You really need to learn the definition of
souls in this context.
Go to your Strong's Concordance (I already did this but you ignored it) and copy and paste the definitions relevant to these two key words.
Now let's address the words of God in the context that the author of Hebrews delivered this letter. (I'm typing slowly so that I don't lose you.) Read this post three times and think about it.
In regards to context:
Q. Who was the author speaking to?
A. He was, of course speaking to the Hebrews.
Q. Why does it matter to whom he was speaking?
A. Because, the Jews had their own form of government that was subject to the conquering Romans. The Romans made a deal with the Jews that they could worship their own God and they could have their own judicial system even. The Sanhedrin Court was the equivalent of our supreme court. Nicodemus is referred to as a ruler of the Jews (he was one of them that ruled over them, does this ring a bell?).
Q. In regards to the words of God, what does this mean?
A. In the temple and the synagogues there are many references of Moses law being read. This is the word of God that is referred to in this context (the ten commandments were originally written by His own finger). Do pastors deliver a word of God? They certainly do, sometimes. They also deliver words that are not from God. If we read the Bible, we can be sure we have heard the word of God, when we listen to preaching (including pastors) we can be sure we heard from God . . . maybe, at least the part that was written in the Bible and read for a text.
Q. Outside of this passage, is there any scriptural support, or any other scripture that references a
pastor being a ruler?
A. It is important to acknowledge that this chapter does not mention a pastor. It DOES mention someone who rules. Someone who rules would be the classic definition of a ruler. Nicodemus was a ruler of the Jews (or Hebrews). This letter is written to the Jews (hence the name Hebrews). Nicodemus would qualify as a ruler in the context of this passage. A pastor would not. The Hebrews did not have separation of church and state. To my knowledge there is no occasion in the Bible that refers to a pastor as a ruler. The chain of command as far as government of the Jews was the Mosaic Law which included the Sanhedrin Court system of enforcement, which followed and enforced the Mosaic Law. This Mosaic Law was the word of God that is referred to in my opinion. The ruler refers to men like Nicodemus at different levels within that legal system. We also have the Christians that were also Hebrews that were still trying to fit into and under the umbrella of Judaism. This is the specific target of the letter to the Hebrews. Nicodemus was one of many of the rulers that they were admonished to obey. In addition to rulers of this sort they ALSO had the five fold ministry because they were Christians. Non-Christians Jews would of course not be concerned with the ministry. The five fold ministry is NEVER to my knowledge referred to as rulers of the church.
2. The meaning of souls, in this context:
Q. What does it mean to watch for your souls?
A. The soul is the very life in the context of
Hebrews 13. These days we think immortal spirit as in the spirit that will spend eternity in heaven or hell. This is NOT the context of souls in this chapter in my opinion. Let me offer Strong's definition of souls pertinent to this use in Hebrews. Strong's says that the meaning of soul is distinguished from (meaning different from) the rational and immortal spirit. You seem to be confusing the context and believing that the rulers watch after our immortal spirit. The author did not mean that. He meant they watch after our life, literally our breath, because when you quit living, you also quit breathing, always. I'll post a couple of scriptures:
Bible, King James Version
Gen.2
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the
breath of life; and man became a
living soul.
Adam became a living soul. He went from a lifeless form, to a living (breathing) soul. This says nothing about his immortal soul, it is talking about his life that was absolutely mortal.
1Cor.15
[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
This scripture helps illustrate the difference in the mortal soul and the immortal soul. Jesus, the last Adam was made a quickening (or life-giving) spirit.
Rev.16
[3] And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
This is evidence that animals have souls. I personally don't believe they have eternal spirits, rather this is referring to the life that exists in the sea (which pretty well confirms that these living souls are not human).
I believe this is the context that the thirteenth chapter of Hebrews is written, and should be understood. I understand that it is not the popular version, but I believe it is the true version.
Re: Saved Without A Pastor??
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