Saved Without A Pastor??

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So, that means what?

My point is that he is questioning whether I'm right, according to how many people believe what I say, and not based onscripture. On the other hand, (or put the shoe on the other foot) and he has his own beliefs that he teaches, that are certainly NOT mainstream even in apostolic churches, and he evidently thinks THAT'S okay.

Because he's special. If I (or others) did the same thing, we would be hypocrites.

THAT"S what THAT means.

Thanks for asking.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

My point is that he is questioning whether I'm right, according to how many people believe what I say, and not based onscripture. On the other hand, (or put the shoe on the other foot) and he has his own beliefs that he teaches, that are certainly NOT mainstream even in apostolic churches, and he evidently thinks THAT'S okay.

Because he's special. If I (or others) did the same thing, we would be hypocrites.

THAT"S what THAT means.

Thanks for asking.

OK, but consider this, religion (I mean every single one) has tendency for one or more individuals to not just reinvent the wheel. But come up with something that isn't even a wheel. When someone points out to us if anyone else in history ever thought or put these ideas in practice, we shouldn't be so quick to discount their pointing that out for us. Because we need to understand that we aren't the first one to see that water was wet. Someone somewhere is out there who believed what we believe in history.

In short, if someone in past, present, can't understand what we found then those in the future might not find it. Because the teaching whether true or false cannot withstand the test of time.

Let me bring an example, the 144,000 of the Watchtower Bible Society. When they first came up with that doctrine it was totally exclusive to them. But as time marched on their doctrine had to shapeshift to be able to be peddled among the elect slave class of Witnesses. Yet, what happened was that the teaching died out as the 144,000 died out, and their eschatology didn't concluded as they once believed. Another is Harold Egbert Camping, and his sorry attempts to pinpoint the end. His entire group accepted his belief, and even under the guise of being scriptural, they dropped the watermelon on his say so, and come Monday couldn't pay their water bill. Which reminds me, I hope come Monday I can pay mine.

Anyway, we shouldn't take offense or think it odd if we are pointed away from our bug on the leaf and asked to look at the forest.

Even our own movement, I was hounded when I first came to the Apostolic Movement by Catholic relatives. Show us your group in history, yet I did the heavy lifting to present my case. So, when they did all that, I could of taken it the wrong way, or just went back to the wood shed to get some good stuff together. I went back to the wood shed.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

OK, but consider this, religion (I mean every single one) has tendency for one or more individuals to not just reinvent the wheel. But come up with something that isn't even a wheel. When someone points out to us if anyone else in history ever thought or put these ideas in practice, we shouldn't be so quick to discount their pointing that out for us. Because we need to understand that we aren't the first one to see that water was wet. Someone somewhere is out there who believed what we believe in history.

In short, if someone in past, present, can't understand what we found then those in the future might not find it. Because the teaching whether true or false cannot withstand the test of time.

Let me bring an example, the 144,000 of the Watchtower Bible Society. When they first came up with that doctrine it was totally exclusive to them. But as time marched on their doctrine had to shapeshift to be able to be peddled among the elect slave class of Witnesses. Yet, what happened was that the teaching died out as the 144,000 died out, and their eschatology didn't concluded as they once believed. Another is Harold Egbert Camping, and his sorry attempts to pinpoint the end. His entire group accepted his belief, and even under the guise of being scriptural, they dropped the watermelon on his say so, and come Monday couldn't pay their water bill. Which reminds me, I hope come Monday I can pay mine.

Anyway, we shouldn't take offense or think it odd if we are pointed away from our bug on the leaf and asked to look at the forest.

Even our own movement, I was hounded when I first came to the Apostolic Movement by Catholic relatives. Show us your group in history, yet I did the heavy lifting to present my case. So, when they did all that, I could of taken it the wrong way, or just went back to the wood shed to get some good stuff together. I went back to the wood shed.

Don't worry brother. I'm not offended. I just went to the woodshed. Did you read the words of Jesus that I posted?

Thanks for your comments.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Don't worry brother. I'm not offended. I just went to the woodshed. Did you read the words of Jesus that I posted?

Thanks for your comments.

Why is Jesus bringing up Imperial Roman Military Law?

I think you are taking the word servant to negate any sort of authority rulership quality? As a teacher, mentor, older brother would have over siblings. Jesus is still the Father, and requests us to be as mature as the Father. But, please proceed, there are two different Greek military phrases used, and want you to tell me their differences in meanings.

[Evang.Benincasa]

TM, do you believe that Hebrews 13:16-17 is dealing with the Roman Judean governing leadership

Tithemister? Were you using this these verses in your no tithing teaching? Is it because they are being told to sacrifice to GOD by SHARING with the guys being talked about in verse 17???!!!!

That is so funny!

[Tithesmeister]

[QUOTE=Evang.Benincasa;1536749]TM, do you believe that Hebrews 13:16-17 is dealing with the Roman Jude an governing leadershipQUOTE]

No, brother.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Tithemister? Were you using this these verses in your no tithing teaching? Is it because they are being told to sacrifice to GOD by SHARING with the guys being talked about in verse 17???!!!!

That is so funny!

No, brother. This has nothing to do with tithes. You know that. And you know I know that too.

Now the word magicians 🎩 may change that. Lord knows they see tithes where there are no tithes and pastors where the Bible says rulers.

Could you post an appropriate meme for me? I can only say good grief and stuff like that because I’m technically challenged.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Why is Jesus bringing up Imperial Roman Military Law?

I think you are taking the word servant to negate any sort of authority rulership quality? As a teacher, mentor, older brother would have over siblings. Jesus is still the Father, and requests us to be as mature as the Father. But, please proceed, there are two different Greek military phrases used, and want you to tell me their differences in meanings.

No brother. I’m not. Did you notice that I referred to Jesus as the King of kings. That is part of my point. They have been trying to water down the scripture by substituting other words for “rule over”. Now you’re doing it.

Notice the words in bold above. I should make a list of words y’all think “rule over” means. Does an older brother “rule over” younger siblings. I have older brothers and neither I, nor anyone else to my knowledge has ever referred to them as ruling over me.

A mentor is a ruler? Can you see how desperate y’all are to change the wording in Hebrews 13? It only repeats “rule over” three times?

How many times is elder, pastor, guide, mentor, teacher, and I don’t know how many others been used in this thread to substitute for “rule over”? I’m afraid to guess. And how many times do they appear in Hebrews 13? They are all tied at zero. Think about it. What is odd is that the words; king, prince, judge, emperor, etc, that actually DO have a similar meaning, have not been used by y’all as a substitute for “rule over” even once. And then 1ofthechosen posts a sermon where Phil White has the pastors and elders come to the front and then has the young people kneel before them because they have “authority issues” or something. Don’t worry, he doesn’t believe in man worship, it’s not that at all. Just kneel before God (and them).

Kneeling before men was frowned on in the Bible on several occasions. You mentioned the fellow servant that John the Revelator fell down to worship, who was rebuked for doing so. Cornelius fell down to worship Peter, and Peter told him to stand up because he was only a man. Meanwhile we have a well respected pastor requesting the young people to kneel before pastors and elders.

The grape 🍇 flavored kiddie drink is flowing. I can only hope and pray there’s no cyanide in it.

Good grief!!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

The grape 🍇 flavored kiddie drink is flowing. I can only hope and pray there’s no cyanide in it.

Good grief!!

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Thank you. How bout a magician 🎩 turning an emperor into Creflo $$$$$

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

No brother. I’m not. Did you notice that I referred to Jesus as the King of kings. That is part of my point. They have been trying to water down the scripture by substituting other words for “rule over”. Now you’re doing it.

Notice the words in bold above. I should make a list of words y’all think “rule over” means. Does an older brother “rule over” younger siblings. I have older brothers and neither I, nor anyone else to my knowledge has ever referred to them as ruling over me.

A mentor is a ruler? Can you see how desperate y’all are to change the wording in Hebrews 13? It only repeats “rule over” three times?

How many times is elder, pastor, guide, mentor, teacher, and I don’t know how many others been used in this thread to substitute for “rule over”? I’m afraid to guess. And how many times do they appear in Hebrews 13? They are all tied at zero. Think about it. What is odd is that the words; king, prince, judge, emperor, etc, that actually DO have a similar meaning, have not been used by y’all as a substitute for “rule over” even once. And then 1ofthechosen posts a sermon where Phil White has the pastors and elders come to the front and then has the young people kneel before them because they have “authority issues” or something. Don’t worry, he doesn’t believe in man worship, it’s not that at all. Just kneel before God (and them).

Kneeling before men was frowned on in the Bible on several occasions. You mentioned the fellow servant that John the Revelator fell down to worship, who was rebuked for doing so. Cornelius fell down to worship Peter, and Peter told him to stand up because he was only a man. Meanwhile we have a well respected pastor requesting the young people to kneel before pastors and elders.

The grape 🍇 flavored kiddie drink is flowing. I can only hope and pray there’s no cyanide in it.

Good grief!!

We need to remember that we are called to submit ourselves one to another, however, if the one we are submitted to is a RULER OVER us, that means by definition he is not submitted to us as we are submitted to him but he is in a dominant capacity.


The call is to be equally submitted to each other NOT one group submitting to another who rules without submitting to us in return.


Maybe this doesn't make sense and if not I blame Benicasa for being my gateway into smoking too much bacon....*cough cough* the salty maple goodness....it burns so good.