What's the difference?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Dude wine and Strong drink are 2 different things. Fermented wine, was not the good wine they are talking about.

At the wedding He definitely made new wine which wasn't fermented but was grape juice. It was a status symbol to have the freshest wine in those days, only poor destitute people drank fermented wine.

John 2:1-10
(1) And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
(2) And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
(3) And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
(4) Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
(5) His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
(6) And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
(7) Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
(8) And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
(9) When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
(10) And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

I don't see any reference to "new wine" here?

Acts 2:13
(13) Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Acts 2:15
(15) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

How do you get "full" of unfermented "new wine" and act out of the ordinary? Such that people would think you were drunk?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

John 2:1-10
(1) And the third day there was a marriageable in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
(2) And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
(3) And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
(4) Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
(5) His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
(6) And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
(7) Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
(8) And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
(9) When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
(10) And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

I don't see any reference to "new wine" here?

Acts 2:13
(13) Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Acts 2:15
(15) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

How do you get "full" of unfermented "new wine" and act out of the ordinary? Such that people would think you were drunk?

I've been to prison you ever seen someone make hooch(wine)? It takes some time to ferment, not long like 2 to 3 days, but what Jesus made was fresh off the press. New wine could be what you didn't let age, which would be 2 or 3 days. But I was referring to the wine was new, not calling it new wine which we can tell in the scripture is referring to Strong Drink.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

I've been to prison you ever seen someone make hooch(wine)? It takes some time to ferment, not long like 2 to 3 days, but what Jesus made was fresh off the press. New wine could be what you didn't let age, which would be 2 or 3 days. But I was referring to the wine was new, not calling it new wine which we can tell in the scripture is referring to Strong Drink.

So, Jesus made new wine which was not alcoholic, but the mockers thought the apostles were drunk on new wine which was 2 or 3 days old? So then wine is alcoholic or not based on what you want it to be, instead of on what it is? Jesus didn't make "new wine fresh off the press". There was no press. There was simply Holy Ghost power. It was wine, and it was considered by the host of the wedding as "the best".

The Scriptures say that wine was given by God to man along with bread and oil. Nobody drank "non alcoholic wine" in the bible, unless you count vinegar. The tetotaler is certainly within their rights to abstain from all wine. But to declare that someone else is somehow not right with God just because they drank wine is wholly unscriptural.

Jesus was accused of being a winebibber. This would have been an impossible and ridiculous accusation that would have held no water with anyone if Jesus and His disciples were dedicated to zero tolerance and total abstinence, like John the Baptist was. He was accused of being a winebibber by Pharisees, who certainly had no prohibition against drinking wine in moderation. Therefore, it is inescapable that Jesus and His disciples did in fact drink wine in moderation, as everyone else in Palestine did except for Nazarites.

I am not trying to encourage anyone to drink wine. But I am trying to discourage people from making claims that simply cannot be supported by Scripture and which contradict Scripture. THAT is more dangerous than drinking a glass of Cabernet with your dinner. Far more dangerous.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So, Jesus made new wine which was not alcoholic, but the mockers thought the apostles were drunk on new wine which was 2 or 3 days old? So then wine is alcoholic or not based on what you want it to be, instead of on what it is? Jesus didn't make "new wine fresh off the press". There was no press. There was simply Holy Ghost power. It was wine, and it was considered by the host of the wedding as "the best".

The Scriptures say that wine was given by God to man along with bread and oil. Nobody drank "non alcoholic wine" in the bible, unless you count vinegar. The tetotaler is certainly within their rights to abstain from all wine. But to declare that someone else is somehow not right with God just because they drank wine is wholly unscriptural.

Jesus was accused of being a winebibber. This would have been an impossible and ridiculous accusation that would have held no water with anyone if Jesus and His disciples were dedicated to zero tolerance and total abstinence, like John the Baptist was. He was accused of being a winebibber by Pharisees, who certainly had no prohibition against drinking wine in moderation. Therefore, it is inescapable that Jesus and His disciples did in fact drink wine in moderation, as everyone else in Palestine did except for Nazarites.

I am not trying to encourage anyone to drink wine. But I am trying to discourage people from making claims that simply cannot be supported by Scripture and which contradict Scripture. THAT is more dangerous than drinking a glass of Cabernet with your dinner. Far more dangerous.

But He ate with Drunkards you don't believe we are the first generations of people that recognize birds of a feather flock together. And you can make wine without yeast. Look up about the Jews who started Welch's Grape Juice.

Y'all can try to justify a reason to drink if you like but it's wrong anyway.. No one said anyone wasn't right with God for drinking. But I did say you can't call yourself a overcomer if you are bound by the beggarly elements of this world. Drinking and smoking and all of that,are the branches of the tree,not the root. And not one of you can use the Bible to support why you drink in this day and age, when you can buy 1000's of supplements, vitamins, and drink 1,000s of different non alcoholic beverages. They in the Bible were under a whole different set of circumstances as we are, there's too many options to substantiate drinking.. But hey Carry on!!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

But He ate with Drunkards

Good grief is right.