Demons and the believer

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Those "imaginations and thoughts" that need to be cast down come to our minds by the influence of demons. If we let them fester, we end up sinning as Ananias and his wife did. The devil doesn't make us sin but influences us just as he did so deftly with Eve in the garden.

Mark 7:15 and James 1:14-15 refute this notion without remedy.

Jesus told the religious Jews that their father was the devil and the works of their father they would do. Jesus was saying that their biological father was the devil but that they were influenced by the devil albeit unwittingly.

I am sure you did not mean to suggest Jesus affirmed they were biologically descended from Satan? Yes, their father was the devil, because they acted like him. What devil is He speaking of? Since the Bible term "devil" is a generic word applied to many things, the question must be asked and answered. The verse you supplied suggests the devil spoken of here is Cain, the first murderer, the murder from "the beginning" (Genesis).

It is not the devil of catholic mythology, though, for that devil was supposedly in the beginning the heavenly choir master and a wonderful angel, not a murderer. So, as usual, pagan myths refute themselves because they are contradictory, just like what was shown: n the Enoch thread re: fallen angels.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Satan entered into Judas and influenced his decision to betray Jesus.

Judas was already a devil - John 6:70. Satan entering Judas is not about a demon possessing him or influencing him. Again, you need to think of Satan as the BIBLE describes the term, not as the RCC Catechism defines it.

The Jewish leaders were doing the works of their "father the devil" when they brought Jesus to Pilate to be crucified. etc, etc.

Yes, and thus 1 Cor 2:8 identifies THEM as the "princes of this world", not an invisible hierarchy of demons.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Mark 7:15 and James 1:14-15 refute this notion without remedy.



I am sure you did not mean to suggest Jesus affirmed they were biologically descended from Satan? Yes, their father was the devil, because they acted like him. What devil is He speaking of? Since the Bible term "devil" is a generic word applied to many things, the question must be asked and answered. The verse you supplied suggests the devil spoken of here is Cain, the first murderer, the murder from "the beginning" (Genesis).

It is not the devil of catholic mythology, though, for that devil was supposedly in the beginning the heavenly choir master and a wonderful angel, not a murderer. So, as usual, pagan myths refute themselves because they are contradictory, just like what was shown: n the Enoch thread re: fallen angels.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



Judas was already a devil - John 6:70. Satan entering Judas is not about a demon possessing him or influencing him. Again, you need to think of Satan as the BIBLE describes the term, not as the RCC Catechism defines it.



Yes, and thus 1 Cor 2:8 identifies THEM as the "princes of this world", not an invisible hierarchy of demons.

Why do you bring the RCC catechism into this? I don't read their writings. Red herring.

I fixed that sentence in the last post. It should have had the word 'not'.

Jesus is saying the same devil in the beginning that influenced Cain is influencing the religious Jews. The devil influenced Cain to murder. Cain committed the murder. The devil is influencing these Jews to murder Jesus.
Do you think the Jews' response to Jesus after he accused them of having the devil as a father reflects your thoughts on this subject?

Sorry if I don't get back to this thread. I have to study for a test.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Why do you bring the RCC catechism into this? I don't read their writings. Red herring.

I fixed that sentence in the last post. It should have had the word 'not'.

Jesus is saying the same devil in the beginning that influenced Cain is influencing the religious Jews. The devil influenced Cain to murder. Cain committed the murder. The devil is influencing these Jews to murder Jesus.
Do you think the Jews' response to Jesus after he accused them of having the devil as a father reflects your thoughts on this subject?

Sorry if I don't get back to this thread. I have to study for a test.

Bookmark the thread, and after your test come back. I'm doing write up in a few that will examine "the god of this world". It'll be an eye opener for some.

Thanks be to God for a successful outcome on your test.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Bookmark the thread, and after your test come back. I'm doing write up in a few that will examine "the god of this world". It'll be an eye opener for some.

Thanks be to God for a successful outcome on your test.

Thank you.

[1ofthechosen]

Ok so 2 Corinthians 4:4 doesn't mean what I say it does?

Ok what about John 16:11 "Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."

Who is this prince you ask? Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."

Which Ephesians 6:12 says "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers." Who is this prince? "The prince of the power of the air" the "prince of this world""the god of this world".

Because you never did answer this but this is what it is. "Bro this is all very simple what happened in the garden was for no other reason then to steal Dominion that was given at the creation of man in Genesis 1:26, and which he carried out in the forming of man in Genesis 2.

So when they chose to disobey God and listen to the serpent the scripture is true "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey." They gave Dominion away. God didn't just come slap the Dominion away from the devil but he has a short time, and even shorter at the glorification of Jesus and the day of Pentecost. Although this is still rightfully his world, because man gave him Dominion. They gave him a right to this economy. And he is at work behind every unregenerate man, and behind the men in High places.

Though men do carry these things out, it's still the devil and the 1/3 angels behind all this. There is a fight between kingdoms., Always being carried out.(as we see in Daniel 10:13, and Revelation 12:7-8) Now while when you yield yourself to his bidding long enough his will becomes yours, I can see that. Which is the same with the Holy Ghost and the things of God the more I yield myself to Him and His will, His desires become my desires.

I don't believe the devil and demons are to blame as much as people say. They aren't behind every flat tire, and bad judgement by the government. But they do play a factor. There is a danger in over emphasizing the works of the devil, while there is also a danger in minimizing them."

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The verse you supplied suggests the devil spoken of here is Cain, the first murderer, the murder from "the beginning" (Genesis).

Bro the first murderer was Satan the serpent in the garden. In trying to steal their Dominion he lied to her got her to eat and commit sin. In that he murdered her, and in turn all of mankind. No he didn't murder her physically or us physically but spiritually yes. So what happened in the spiritual, through Cain took place in the physical.

Cain was the first one to kill anyone physically, but Satan had already caused it to take place in the spiritual. He became the father of it and lies, sin, and iniquity. Whatever takes place in the natural has to go forth first in the spiritual.

That's the whole purposes of the seals in the book of Revelations that is taking place In the Spiritual, but then when Trumpets take place that's when they are being shed forth.

It's all throughout the Old Testament to especially the prophets.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Bro the first murderer was Satan the serpent in the garden. In trying to steal their Dominion he lied to her got her to eat and commit sin. In that he murdered her, and in turn all of mankind. No he didn't murder her physically or us physically but spiritually yes. So what happened in the spiritual, through Cain took place in the physical.

Cain was the first one to kill anyone physically, but Satan had already caused it to take place in the spiritual. He became the father of it and lies, sin, and iniquity. Whatever takes place in the natural has to go forth first in the spiritual.

That's the whole purposes of the seals in the book of Revelations that is taking place In the Spiritual, but then when Trumpets take place that's when they are being shed forth.

It's all throughout the Old Testament to especially the prophets.

You are reading your Bible with a preconceived viewpoint in place, that cannot be derived solely from the Bible itself.

Cain was a murderer from the beginning, and the Rabbins were following in his footsteps. They were not trying to deceive Jesus by tempting Him to disobey God, they were plotting His death because He, like Abel, was righteous and they, like Cain, were not.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You are reading your Bible with a preconceived viewpoint in place, that cannot be derived solely from the Bible itself.

Cain was a murderer from the beginning, and the Rabbins were following in his footsteps. They were not trying to deceive Jesus by tempting Him to disobey God, they were plotting His death because He, like Abel, was righteous and they, like Cain, were not.

What im speaking of comes out if the prayer room and lines up with the Word of God. I didn't receive this of man. John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Says nothing about Cain, nor was he being referenced. But it does say this explicitly about the devil.

Not only did he murder all mankind through deception until Jesus provided a perfect sacrifice and brought salvation. He also murdered the other 1/3 of the Angels that fell with him it talks about in Revelation 12:3-4.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

What im speaking of comes out if the prayer room and lines up with the Word of God. I didn't receive this of man. John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Says nothing about Cain, nor was he being referenced. But it does say this explicitly about the devil.

Not only did he murder all mankind through deception until Jesus provided a perfect sacrifice and brought salvation. He also murdered the other 1/3 of the Angels that fell with him it talks about in Revelation 12:3-4.

So, you have divine revelation that is not actually stated in the Bible? Sorry, but I don't go by anyone's divine revelation, I have a more sure word (2 Peter 1:19).

You are eisegeting, reading into the text things that are not there. I understand that what is being presented to you is contrary to the beliefs you have, and therefore you have a hard time understanding something other than what you currently hold. To each his own. I have no sacred cows and no traditions to defend except what I see written in the Word.

The origin and nature and mechanism of sin is spelled out quite explicitly in the Bible, and that's what I believe. The terms devil and satan are used for various things and various people, so I believe that. The Bible teaches by both precept and example that we are not running around swatting invisible demon-flies, but are engaged in a spiritual war between the Kingdom (dominion, RULE) of Christ and the kingdoms of men and their vain philosophies. Heathen gods are demons, and they are also NOTHING. That informs my understanding of these things.

People can get all sorts of things "in the prayer room" but if it does not agree with the Scripture then it's all just last night's pizza sauce.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So, you have divine revelation that is not actually stated in the Bible? Sorry, but I don't go by anyone's divine revelation, I have a more sure word (2 Peter 1:19).

You are eisegeting, reading into the text things that are not there. I understand that what is being presented to you is contrary to the beliefs you have, and therefore you have a hard time understanding something other than what you currently hold. To each his own. I have no sacred cows and no traditions to defend except what I see written in the Word.

The origin and nature and mechanism of sin is spelled out quite explicitly in the Bible, and that's what I believe. The terms devil and satan are used for various things and various people, so I believe that. The Bible teaches by both precept and example that we are not running around swatting invisible demon-flies, but are engaged in a spiritual war between the Kingdom (dominion, RULE) of Christ and the kingdoms of men and their vain philosophies. Heathen gods are demons, and they are also NOTHING. That informs my understanding of these things.

People can get all sorts of things "in the prayer room" but if it does not agree with the Scripture then it's all just last night's pizza sauce.