Netanyahu: I will name a golan town after trump

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

The genealogy, as you know, was a historical and legal record to prove a family's background. I would note that generally only males were included, but in the Book of Matthew three Gentile women were named, which showed that God cared for people outside of the Jewish line as well.

Having a Moabitess included into a record didn’t mean that God cared for people outside of the TRIBAL lines. People tend to use the word Jewish like they are talking about Asian, African, European, when in fact Israel wasn’t just made up of one tribe, but many different tribes.. Jews today are of no tribe. You repeating your self that there has to be someone doesn’t line up with what you explained to me above. The lineages were mandertory. Everyony had to have an authentic genealogy. For Jesus to tell them that the generation He was speaking to wouldn’t end until everything was completed would of been understood by His audience. We Pentecostals allow that statement to wiz right over our heads.
You have to remember that you were really not taught much about Bible lineage genealogy. So when someone brings it up it is discounted and gets placed on the pay no mind list. The Gentiles being placed in Jesus’ lineage are important to show when females were married into a tribe. Not one word about showing how God cares about those outside the line of Israel. Because Abraham was once a pagan among pagans. The Bible is about come out from among them. It isn’t about a DNA strand only linked to one race. It is about repentance and conversion. Jesus’ linage also has an individual who was cursed. Does that mean God wanted to show He thought about those He cursed? No, lineages were to show who was qualified for what and who you were connected to. You have no genealogy? Then you CANNOT PROVE you were part of that physical covenant made in flesh. We are to no longer be concerned with ENDLESS genealogies. Because they are no longer any concern with God.
What we called Israel over in the Middle East means as much to God as Borger Texas. Borger isn’t in the Bible, and neither is the new country called Israel.

No one in Israel today can prove any lineage to Ancient Israel.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Having a Moabitess included into a record didn’t mean that God cared for people outside of the TRIBAL lines. People tend to use the word Jewish like they are talking about Asian, African, European, when in fact Israel wasn’t just made up of one tribe, but many different tribes.. Jews today are of no tribe. You repeating your self that there has to be someone doesn’t line up with what you explained to me above. The lineages were mandertory. Everyony had to have an authentic genealogy. For Jesus to tell them that the generation He was speaking to wouldn’t end until everything was completed would of been understood by His audience. We Pentecostals allow that statement to wiz right over our heads.
You have to remember that you were really not taught much about Bible lineage genealogy. So when someone brings it up it is discounted and gets placed on the pay no mind list. The Gentiles being placed in Jesus’ lineage are important to show when females were married into a tribe. Not one word about showing how God cares about those outside the line of Israel. Because Abraham was once a pagan among pagans. The Bible is about come out from among them. It isn’t about a DNA strand only linked to one race. It is about repentance and conversion. Jesus’ linage also has an individual who was cursed. Does that mean God wanted to show He thought about those He cursed? No, lineages were to show who was qualified for what and who you were connected to. You have no genealogy? Then you CANNOT PROVE you were part of that physical covenant made in flesh. We are to no longer be concerned with ENDLESS genealogies. Because they are no longer any concern with God.
What we called Israel over in the Middle East means as much to God as Borger Texas. Borger isn’t in the Bible, and neither is the new country called Israel.

No one in Israel today can prove any lineage to Ancient Israel.

I believe that "Jechoniah was the father of Shealtiel," was mentioned to understand Haggai's blessing (Haggai 2:20-24) of Zerubabbel as the rescission of Jeremiah's curse (Jeremiah 22:24-30) reinstating Jehoiachin's line on David's throne.

Since Joseph's genealogy would include Johoachin (Matthew 1:12), the reinstatement would be important to include his name.

Jesus would have the genealogy titles from both Joseph and Mary as

• Son of David
• Son of Abrabram (No answer as to why God chose a pagan to be the father of all Israel, He just chose Abraham)
• Son of Adam (receiving his full humanity from his mother
• Son of God.

I do still believe that the women mentioned in the lineage was important, as Matthew makes clear - God was coming to save the lost sheep Israel and that the Gentiles would also benefit. You can't read Rahab's name and think otherwise, IMO. It stands to reason as Jesus spoke to the Jewish people first - "and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem."

Lastly, I do agree that under the NT Covenant genealogy and tribes do not "matter" even if the Jewish people think otherwise. I also do not believe that lineage/bloodlines end just because paperwork was destroyed. I do believe that we could still find Jewish people, all over the world, who would relate back to Abraham if we had that capability.

An interesting story, a friend was looking for a person from their past, but did not know the person's name, where this person lived, etc. Temporarily putting that on a backburner, the person decided out of curiosty to submit their information to Ancestry.com. Some few months later, they received a notice that a person wanted to contact them as their DNA was a 95% match. Hooking up and after conversing and verifying incidents of time, location and history, everything discovered was found to be true. The person found their family they thought had been lost to them. Happy ending.

So, no, I do not believe that genetic genealogy is bogus.

[Pressing-On]

Israel’s ambassador to UN goes biblical during meeting with Security Council
https://www.jns.org/israels-ambassad...urity-council/

(video embed)


“And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant. And I will give to you, and to your descendants after you, all the land of Cana’an, for an everlasting possession. And I will be their God,” he said.

The Israeli ambassador added: “From the book of Genesis; to the Jewish exodus from Egypt; to receiving the Torah on Mount Sinai … and to the realization of God’s covenant in the Holy Land of Israel; the Bible paints a consistent picture. The entire history of our people, and our connection to (the Land of Israel), begins right here.”

“This is our deed to our land,” he asserted.


Israel belongs to the Jews.

[MawMaw]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Israel’s ambassador to UN goes biblical during meeting with Security Council
https://www.jns.org/israels-ambassad...urity-council/

(video embed)


“And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant. And I will give to you, and to your descendants after you, all the land of Cana’an, for an everlasting possession. And I will be their God,” he said.

The Israeli ambassador added: “From the book of Genesis; to the Jewish exodus from Egypt; to receiving the Torah on Mount Sinai … and to the realization of God’s covenant in the Holy Land of Israel; the Bible paints a consistent picture. The entire history of our people, and our connection to (the Land of Israel), begins right here.”

“This is our deed to our land,” he asserted.


Israel belongs to the Jews.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Israel’s ambassador to UN goes biblical during meeting with Security Council
https://www.jns.org/israels-ambassad...urity-council/

(video embed)


“And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant. And I will give to you, and to your descendants after you, all the land of Cana’an, for an everlasting possession. And I will be their God,” he said.

The Israeli ambassador added: “From the book of Genesis; to the Jewish exodus from Egypt; to receiving the Torah on Mount Sinai … and to the realization of God’s covenant in the Holy Land of Israel; the Bible paints a consistent picture. The entire history of our people, and our connection to (the Land of Israel), begins right here.”

“This is our deed to our land,” he asserted.


Israel belongs to the Jews.

The Land Promise wasn't made with "the Jews", it was made with a nation called Israel consisting of TWELVE tribes (not just Judah). Who were also prophesied to become a multitude of nations, a company of nations, a vast multitude, be a blessing to every family on earth, spread abroad in all directions and rule, reign, colonize everywhere, recognize Messiah, spread the Gospel to every nation...

So, no, the people today calling themselves "Jews" are not those people you read about in the Bible.

Biblical promises do not transfer to Turkic Khazars and Edomites just because they adopt the religion of Satan and lie about being Judah. Sorry Charlie.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Israel belongs to the Jews.

No, it belongs to anyone who has the biggest gun.

One day it belonged to the Babylonians, then it belonged to the Persians, then to the Greeks, then to the Romans, then to the Crusaders, then to the Ottomans, then to the British, then to the United States. Did I miss anyone?

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Lastly, I do agree that under the NT Covenant genealogy and tribes do not "matter" even if the Jewish people think otherwise. I also do not believe that lineage/bloodlines end just because paperwork was destroyed. I do believe that we could still find Jewish people, all over the world, who would relate back to Abraham if we had that capability.

My apologies for interrupting, but isn't the whole point that we don't have that capability? Perhaps I am reading into their statements more than I should, but my understanding of what our brothers are saying is that a Biblical lineage ends when the paperwork does, not that the literal lineage does. Obviously whoever your great-great-great-great-great grandpa was is still your great-great-great-great-great grandpa regardless of paperwork, but you have no claim without the paperwork, and no amount of genetic testing can prove otherwise.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Ehud

My apologies for interrupting, but isn't the whole point that we don't have that capability? Perhaps I am reading into their statements more than I should, but my understanding of what our brothers are saying is that a Biblical lineage ends when the paperwork does, not that the literal lineage does. Obviously whoever your great-great-great-great-great grandpa was is still your great-great-great-great-great grandpa regardless of paperwork, but you have no claim without the paperwork, and no amount of genetic testing can prove otherwise.

You are never interrupting on this Forum. No apologies needed. Tangents are accepted as well.

my understanding of what our brothers are saying is that a Biblical lineage ends when the paperwork does, not that the literal lineage does.

I can't reconcile your two thoughts. The lineage either ends or it doesn't. If the literal doesn't end, then it is ongoing with or without paperwork.

My point is that they did not have DNA capability and used paperwork, otherwise, DNA would have been their method essentially having the same details.

I just remembered something Esaias was saying and where we really had the disagreement - the Jews of today or not the same people as Biblical times. The thing is, they follow the same Hebrew Bible, and so they think that they are and so do I. It doesn't mean they don't have to answer for Acts 2:38.

Aside from all of that, which is neither here nor there, the argument is about whether we should support Israel and I believe that we should - whether they have accepted Jesus Christ or not. It is their country that was given by God, they have kept the Oracles of God, and they are our largest democratic ally in the Middle East. I support Israel and not because of Dispensationalism.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

You are never interrupting on this Forum. No apologies needed. Tangents are accepted as well.

I tend to enjoy the tangents more than the actual discussions. I'm pretty sure I'm hardwired to be weird like that. Most of my conversations can be likened to an episode of Seinfeld: completely about nothing.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I can't reconcile your two thoughts. The lineage either ends or it doesn't. If the literal doesn't end, then it is ongoing with or without paperwork.

A Biblical lineage *demanded* proof. A literal lineage does not. You might very well be related to Abraham, but without the paperwork you can't prove it. If you can't prove it, your Biblical lineage has ended. I readily admit the literal lineage would not end, but without Biblical lineage, no claim can be made. Only an heir with documentation is walking away with an inheritance. It's very much like all thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs. (Am I proving that random, tangent thing yet? Ha!)

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

My point is that they did not have DNA capability and used paperwork, otherwise, DNA would have been their method essentially having the same details.

I suppose this is just an area where agreeing to disagree is the way to go. I am admittedly not well versed on DNA testing, but I have never seen any proof that DNA testing can tell us our exact lineage. Not only did OT folks not have the capability, neither do we. It requires paperwork to prove the specifics.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Ehud

A Biblical lineage *demanded* proof. A literal lineage does not. You might very well be related to Abraham, but without the paperwork you can't prove it. If you can't prove it, your Biblical lineage has ended. I readily admit the literal lineage would not end, but without Biblical lineage, no claim can be made. Only an heir with documentation is walking away with an inheritance. It's very much like all thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs. (Am I proving that random, tangent thing yet? Ha!

I suppose this is just an area where agreeing to disagree is the way to go. I am admittedly not well versed on DNA testing, but I have never seen any proof that DNA testing can tell us our exact lineage. Not only did OT folks not have the capability, neither do we. It requires paperwork to prove the specifics.

I would have to agree as technically this could only be true. The literal doesn’t end, but you would need visible proof.