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Old 05-14-2019, 07:56 PM
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votivesoul votivesoul is offline
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Re: The Timing of Cornelius’ Baptism of the Holy G

The goal of the Gospel is eternal life. Eternal life is immortality with Christ in Paradise. This takes us back to Eden. After Adam sinned, he and Eve were removed from the Garden. What was God's main concern?

That, in their state, they should eat from the Tree of Life. Why would God care about it? What bad would have come from it all if Adam and Eve had just remained in the Garden, went up to the Tree of Life and eaten from it, even though He had just condemned and cursed them?

Would it have not just saved them and made all well? Wouldn't the Tree of Life have just fixed the sin issue and made the Garden available to them again? Why did God have to bar them from the one thing (Tree of Life) that would have seemingly saved the day and brought an end to the catastrophe of eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

If you can discern the answer to all of that, you can understand better why simply receiving the Holy Spirit but not being correctly, Biblically immersed, isn't enough, either.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:19 PM
Graham Graham is offline
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Re: The Timing of Cornelius’ Baptism of the Holy G

Great post Votive!
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:09 PM
Ehud Ehud is offline
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Re: The Timing of Cornelius’ Baptism of the Holy G

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
The goal of the Gospel is eternal life. Eternal life is immortality with Christ in Paradise. This takes us back to Eden. After Adam sinned, he and Eve were removed from the Garden. What was God's main concern?

That, in their state, they should eat from the Tree of Life. Why would God care about it? What bad would have come from it all if Adam and Eve had just remained in the Garden, went up to the Tree of Life and eaten from it, even though He had just condemned and cursed them?

Would it have not just saved them and made all well? Wouldn't the Tree of Life have just fixed the sin issue and made the Garden available to them again? Why did God have to bar them from the one thing (Tree of Life) that would have seemingly saved the day and brought an end to the catastrophe of eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

If you can discern the answer to all of that, you can understand better why simply receiving the Holy Spirit but not being correctly, Biblically immersed, isn't enough, either.
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Great post Votive!
Was it really? I'll take the loss on this one and say I'm too dense to follow. Could either of you explain this to me?
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:47 PM
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Re: The Timing of Cornelius’ Baptism of the Holy G

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Was it really? I'll take the loss on this one and say I'm too dense to follow. Could either of you explain this to me?
The Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden was the source of immortality. In typology, the Tree of Life represents Jesus. Particularly, Jesus as the Holy Spirit, for the "Spirit is Life" and is sometimes called the "Spirit of Grace" and it is by an outpouring of abundant, justifying grace (which is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit), we become or are made heirs of eternal life (Titus 3:7).

Other examples abound. The Last Adam was made a life-giving (i.e. quickening) Spirit. Etc. and etc.

And yet, within this typology, if Adam and Eve had eaten from the Tree of Life, or, as it were, had merely partaken of the Holy Spirit of Grace, and received eternal life, again, as it were, through Christ, but had not had the body of their sins destroyed, the curse God placed upon them would have yet remained. It would have been some kind of hybrid blessed but cursed state, a saved but damned, as well, confusion, that ultimately, would have led to a disastrous typology of the Gospel.

No, the only plan that could have worked was for a continued expulsion from Paradise and God's Holy Presence, until an atonement could be made for them, which didn't occur until Golgotha. For all the OT saints back to Adam, the propitiating blood of Christ was shed for the remission of sins that were in the past (Romans 3:25) cleansed them and gave to them the right to the Tree of Life.

But looking forward from the cross, the blood of the atonement, that saves us from wrath (Romans 5:9), which was shed for the remission of sins (Matthew 26:28), is so that the body of sins each sinner has amassed over his or her life, can be destroyed (Romans 6:6). Unless and until that body of sin is destroyed in us, even as it was already procured for us at the cross, it is no different, having the Holy Spirit but not being immersed, as it would have been for Adam and Eve to continue to eat freely from the Tree of Life, post-Fall.

It's one and the same thing.

You could also look at it like this:

God giving the Spirit at Pentecost was His faithful fulfillment of covenantal promise. It was Him showing up, as it were, to the altar of marriage. Our immersion in the name of Jesus Christ is our faithful fulfillment of covenantal promise. It's our showing up, as it were, to the same altar of marriage.

Both parties have to say "I do", if you will. The gift of the Holy Spirit is how God says yes to marriage, and agreeing to being baptized is how we say yes to marriage.

With only one or the other, only one side of the covenant is being faithful. God gives the Holy Spirit because He is ever faithful; He cannot deny Himself (2 Timothy 2:13). Receiving the Holy Spirit is a wonderful thing, wherever and however it happens, in any person's life, the world over. But being baptized into Christ is just as wonderful, and needs must be accomplished. It is a holy imperative.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:17 AM
Ehud Ehud is offline
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Re: The Timing of Cornelius’ Baptism of the Holy G

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The Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden was the source...
Thank you for the response; much appreciated.
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:59 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: The Timing of Cornelius’ Baptism of the Holy G

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
The goal of the Gospel is eternal life. Eternal life is immortality with Christ in Paradise. This takes us back to Eden. After Adam sinned, he and Eve were removed from the Garden. What was God's main concern?

That, in their state, they should eat from the Tree of Life. Why would God care about it? What bad would have come from it all if Adam and Eve had just remained in the Garden, went up to the Tree of Life and eaten from it, even though He had just condemned and cursed them?

Would it have not just saved them and made all well? Wouldn't the Tree of Life have just fixed the sin issue and made the Garden available to them again? Why did God have to bar them from the one thing (Tree of Life) that would have seemingly saved the day and brought an end to the catastrophe of eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

If you can discern the answer to all of that, you can understand better why simply receiving the Holy Spirit but not being correctly, Biblically immersed, isn't enough, either.
I'm sorry, but I cannot discern it.
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