UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by n david

What leadership roles are we talking about?





Where is this 6mo or 1yr + model found in the Bible?

Hebrews 13:17 is a good start.

[n david]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Any new person is 6 month minimum.

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Hebrews 13:17 is a good start.

Not seeing the requirement of 6 months or 1 year plus fruit in that verse.

Acts 6 is a good account of the Apostles choosing certain men to assist in leading the early church.

"Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word. And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them."

What is included:
Honest report
Full of the Holy Ghost
Full of wisdom
Given to prayer and ministry of the word

What is not included:
6 months or 1 year plus fruit

Verse 5 includes a convert -- "Nicholas a proselyte of Antioch."

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by n david

Not seeing the requirement of 6 months or 1 year plus fruit in that verse.

Acts 6 is a good account of the Apostles choosing certain men to assist in leading the early church.

"Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word. And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them."

What is included:
Honest report
Full of the Holy Ghost
Full of wisdom
Given to prayer and ministry of the word

What is not included:
6 months or 1 year plus fruit

I doubt those individuals were unknowns though. Would you trust a complete stranger to lead a congregation in any way?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Ehud

I doubt those individuals were unknowns though. Would you trust a complete stranger to lead a congregation in any way?

Verse 5 includes a convert - Nicholas a proselyte of Antioch.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by n david

Verse 5 includes a convert - Nicholas a proselyte of Antioch.

And? It doesn’t say he converted that day.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Ehud

And? It doesn’t say he converted that day.

You're absolutely right. The verse's designation of him as a proselyte could be more about his origin than newness in the faith. But that makes me question why it didn't refer to the others as proselytes.

I'm just thinking out loud.

I believe these men being full of the HG and wisdom and being given to prayer and the word was more important to the Apostles than their newness in the faith.

Again, just thinking out loud ... you have 120 in the upper room and 3,000 saved in one day, with multitudes added every day ... there had to have been absolute new converts who rose up to spread the gospel and lead others to Christ.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by n david

I believe these men being full of the HG and faith and being given to prayer and the word was more important to the Apostles than their newness in the faith.

Absolutely. My personal opinion is that the waiting period is more for the congregation to get to know them than anything. If they don’t have the things you mentioned, they could be there a decade and shouldn’t be in leadership.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by n david

You're absolutely right. The verse's designation of him as a proselyte could be more about his origin than newness in the faith. But that makes me question why it didn't refer to the others as proselytes.

I'm just thinking out loud.

I believe these men being full of the HG and wisdom and being given to prayer and the word was more important to the Apostles than their newness in the faith.

Again, just thinking out loud ... you have 120 in the upper room and 3,000 saved in one day, with multitudes added every day ... there had to have been absolute new converts who rose up to spread the gospel and lead others to Christ.

The Bible does not specify any specific time period for appointment as deacon or overseer. It does warn against appointing novices and says appointees must be tested. The actual time frame is therefore dependent upon whoever is doing the appointing. Thus it may vary from church to church and appointee to appointee. Each situation is different, there is no standardised fill in the blank automated process.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Ehud

I doubt those individuals were unknowns though. Would you trust a complete stranger to lead a congregation in any way?

How much time passed between the outpouring of Acts 2 and the installation of these men in early church leadership in Acts 6?

Obviously, we don't know when these men were saved or how long they had been in the early church prior to their becoming leaders.

I find it interesting, though, that verse 5 is specific about one being a convert. Now, I admit that "proselyte" may be referring more to his origin rather than his newness in the faith.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by n david

How much time passed between the outpouring of Acts 2 and the installation of these men in early church leadership in Acts 6?

Obviously, we don't know when these men were saved or how long they had been in the early church prior to their becoming leaders.

I find it interesting, though, that verse 5 is specific about one being a convert.

I am unsure as well. How long do you think the wait should be? Our church has no particular waiting period. When the pastor decides he knows the person well enough, into leadership they go.