Tony Spell has church in spite of the ban

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The CDC recently admitted that the actual numbers of people who died from COVID is only 6% of what was previously reported. All the rest had comorbidities. Same thing in Italy, some 98% of all reported COVID deaths had serious underlying conditions.

The vast majority of COVID deaths are among people in their 70s and up WITH multiple serious underlying health disorders.

We've had previous "epidemics" that actually had worse outcomes, yet nobody batted an eye or suggested anyone "mask up or else" nor did we shut the global economy down.

Bill Gates and his fellow travelers have been pushing for genetically engineered vaccines for some time, these people are literally working for an extinction level event in order to fulfill their transhumanist dreams.

You really need to wake up and see what is going on here.

Great Satan, indeed.

yawn we calculated this friend

Numbers stand. Deaths by organ failure or pneumonia or strokes caused by clotting because a virus attacks veins are still caused by the virus that did it.
What kind of morons assume otherwise?

Deaths per year, month, week, are available for years and years. Show us that this happens all the time.

trumper idiots are spreading this. You one? Taiwan needs a “vaccine”? No. SARS? No. SARS was stamped before a vaccine could be made. A vaccine is necessary if this is not stamped out like SARS and like MERS. Only trumpers and trumper wingnuts want to spread it. Why.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Only trumpers and trumper wingnuts want to spread it. Why.

This is incorrect. A certain segment that stands to make billions wants to spread fear, and a few people want to spread some common sense.

"Trump wingnuts"?

This has very little to do with Trump (who is pushing for a vaccine, and who claims Biden is an "anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist").

The same people who are telling you all about the COVID are the same people who were telling you all about the bird flu and the swine flu and how HIV was going to wipe out half the planet. And on and on it goes.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Esaias

This is incorrect. A certain segment that stands to make billions wants to spread fear, and a few people want to spread some common sense.

"Trump wingnuts"?

This has very little to do with Trump (who is pushing for a vaccine, and who claims Biden is an "anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist").

The same people who are telling you all about the COVID are the same people who were telling you all about the bird flu and the swine flu and how HIV was going to wipe out half the planet. And on and on it goes.

I never heard that a virus was going to “wipe out half the planet”.

This is what I do know:

MERS killed 35% of everyone it infected. It was like the death angel itself. That one I remember because we had outbreaks every spring.
SARS killed 10%
COV-19? Looks like it’s running 1-2%, with some outliers but that’s global average.

That’s not a “planet wipeout” but it is a very, very large number of graves

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18450-4

Studies of compiled studies going back to when volunteers were deliberately infected with coronavirus (one causes the common cold) indicate that antibodies disappear between 11 weeks and 2 years after infection. Think a vaccine will work? Science is not “anti-vaxx” friend. Some viruses - lifetime immunity. Others, you fight off and next time it comes around you get sick again.

Coronavirus exposure has never conveyed immunity like chicken pox. So outbreaks? They’re stamped out.

Stamp out process: Reduce person to person exposure to a factor of less than one. That means fewer than one additional person is infected per person exposed. Do this: the transmission cycle breaks cases fall to zero, and that virus does not come back unless it jumps from the original host.

Masking up and distancing, which was started in Taiwan in JANUARY, has proven there, Japan, Hong Kong, Malaysia, South Korea, and other regional countries to be highly effective.

Once transmission/spread is driven to zero that original host is far, far away.

12 weeks of this would have been all it would take. No shutdowns. Not even much of a slowdown. Masks and distancing.

Instead we are still arguing about this while the rest of the world is laughing at us and we’re chasing a vaccine that to be effective we have to take over and over and over as long as this germ is spreading.

Which is better? What approach does the SCIENCE not political parties suggest?

At 200,000 and counting by the way deliberately spreading is to me no different from deliberately killing. Defiantly continuing to do it in the face of public health orders after a church member died and the lawyer defending it ended up sucking oxygen in the ICU means you premeditate it. That isn’t christian. It isn’t even human. It’s criminal. That’s why this dude is looking at jail.

That is the word from that area. Those folks want him locked up. Not “the state”. Not “the debbil”. The neighbors.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I never heard that a virus was going to “wipe out half the planet”.

You must have been asleep through the 80s.

This is what I do know:

MERS killed 35% of everyone it infected. It was like the death angel itself. That one I remember because we had outbreaks every spring.
SARS killed 10%
COV-19? Looks like it’s running 1-2%, with some outliers but that’s global average.

So why no lockdowns and quarantines and mask mandates and toilet paper runs with MERS or SARS? 1-2%? What's the fatality rate for tuberculosis? Malaria?

How can you not see the demanded social response to the current situation is out of proportion to previous epidemics?

That’s not a “planet wipeout” but it is a very, very large number of graves

Then why aren't we on a global crusade regarding cancer or diabetes like we are with this one? Cancer knocks off about what, 1 out of every 2 or 3 people in the developed world? If response was proportional to claimed threat, then either we wouldn't even be hearing about COVID or we'd be in a global society dedicated to nothing but eradicating cancer by any means necessary, period.

12 weeks of this would have been all it would take. No shutdowns. Not even much of a slowdown. Masks and distancing.

Explain Sweden.

At 200,000 and counting by the way deliberately spreading is to me no different from deliberately killing.

How many people has "government" deliberately killed? Are you this up in arms about government? What about alcohol? I know as a Muslim you are in favor of temperance/prohibition but are you this adamant about it as you are with coronaflu?

About that 200,000...

Hospitals have already been caught reporting "COVID deaths" that simply were not. The state of Ohio is being sued, in part over the claimed fatality rate. People dying of alcohol poisoning have been listed as "died from COVID". 94% of COVID deaths are actually "died WITH" and NOT "died FROM". The CDC coding allows all sorts of people to be listed as dead from COVID who have no business being listed as such. There is BIG $$$ to be made, not to mention political points.

There are no 200,000 "dead from COVID".

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

yawn we calculated this friend

Numbers stand. Deaths by organ failure or pneumonia or strokes caused by clotting because a virus attacks veins are still caused by the virus that did it.
What kind of morons assume otherwise?

Deaths per year, month, week, are available for years and years. Show us that this happens all the time.

trumper idiots are spreading this. You one? Taiwan needs a “vaccine”? No. SARS? No. SARS was stamped before a vaccine could be made. A vaccine is necessary if this is not stamped out like SARS and like MERS. Only trumpers and trumper wingnuts want to spread it. Why.

wii - I used to have some respect for your ability to debate and come up with a coherent argument.
What happened?

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

wii - I used to have some respect for your ability to debate and come up with a coherent argument.
What happened?

On this one? The tedious effort of obtaining and comparing state (Texas) and national total deaths, all causes, no codes or bias, resulted in a 2020 vs 2019 difference from Feb 1 to Aug of 200,000. So nationally ~200,000 more people died. That number, ~200,000, coming from just a comparison of 2020 vs 2019, is more than the site that tracks the accumulated COV deaths. In fact, that site was was reporting 192,000 and the raw data all cause death difference was 27 weeks x 62649 per week (2020) minus 55,288 per week (2019) or 198,747. It was very, very closely aligned but actual was just slightly higher than the sum total of state/county deaths that are reported as COVId related.

These guys attribute 6,000 of these to COVID. Silence on the 194,000 others. Unexplainable, but assuredly not cannot be absolutely not COVID.

What kind of logic is that? “COVID and pneumonia” gets excluded. “COVID and organ failure” gets excluded. “COVID and stroke” gets excluded. “COVID and heart failure” gets excluded and the conclusion becomes “hey look nobody died of just COVID” so “COVID is safe to spread around!”. Followed by “We exposed the deep state”!!!!

The thinking process behind the development of that convoluted logic is astounding. Hence the probably inappropriately coined term “wingnut”.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

On this one? The tedious effort of obtaining and comparing state (Texas) and national total deaths, all causes, no codes or bias, resulted in a 2020 vs 2019 difference from Feb 1 to Aug of 200,000. So nationally ~200,000 more people died. That number, ~200,000, coming from just a comparison of 2020 vs 2019, is more than the site that tracks the accumulated COV deaths. In fact, that site was was reporting 192,000 and the raw data all cause death difference was 27 weeks x 62649 per week (2020) minus 55,288 per week (2019) or 198,747. It was very, very closely aligned but actual was just slightly higher than the sum total of state/county deaths that are reported as COVId related.

These guys attribute 6,000 of these to COVID. Silence on the 194,000 others. Unexplainable, but assuredly not cannot be absolutely not COVID.

What kind of logic is that? “COVID and pneumonia” gets excluded. “COVID and organ failure” gets excluded. “COVID and stroke” gets excluded. “COVID and heart failure” gets excluded and the conclusion becomes “hey look nobody died of just COVID” so “COVID is safe to spread around!”. Followed by “We exposed the deep state”!!!!

The thinking process behind the development of that convoluted logic is astounding. Hence the probably inappropriately coined term “wingnut”.

wii - I do agree that we should be able to determine the "true" deaths by looking at the overall death rates for period comparison.
What has to be factored in, is the spike in death rates caused by the lockdowns, which resulted in people not wanting to visit doctors or hospitals.
Also, by medical personnel who stopped working because of their fear (and yes I know of several cases of this).
Other factors would include the rise in the number of suicides and the theoretical decrease of auto accident deaths, due to fewer miles being driven.
A HUGE factor would be the refusal of many in the medical establishment to use HCQ for preventative or early diagnosis treatment.
How many did that kill?
Waiting for a study to come out that looks at all these, but that will be a couple of years from now.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

wii - I do agree that we should be able to determine the "true" deaths by looking at the overall death rates for period comparison.
What has to be factored in, is the spike in death rates caused by the lockdowns, which resulted in people not wanting to visit doctors or hospitals.
Also, by medical personnel who stopped working because of their fear (and yes I know of several cases of this).
Other factors would include the rise in the number of suicides and the theoretical decrease of auto accident deaths, due to fewer miles being driven.
A HUGE factor would be the refusal of many in the medical establishment to use HCQ for preventative or early diagnosis treatment.
How many did that kill?
Waiting for a study to come out that looks at all these, but that will be a couple of years from now.

No need for HCQ or any other treatment if people aren’t spreading it.

I was interested in when the spikes happened - so

Did the same look week by week for our state.

We were locked down until May 19th, we opened with local governments prohibited from enforcing masks or mask rules.

Our hospitals were full by the first week of July. Mandatory masks in public were ordered July 3rd.

Spikes (Texas) were June and July and it looks like they were falling in August.

Total deaths - state

2019 Jan-mid August: 130,403
2020 Jan-mid August: 150,254

Average weekly - state

2019 average: 3952 per week
2020 average: 4553 per week

Peak weeks: 7/18 6102, 7/25 6108 (156% of 2019 weekly average)

Posted the link to the data for all states, all weeks, both years in another thread, it’s CDC total deaths all causes provisional 2019-2020. It’s about 6 weeks behind, have to be careful with the last few weeks, I stopped mid August.

Deaths are up. Significantly up. For some reason. In our state, they were elevated most of the year, but the big spike was late July about 2-3 weeks after the hospitalization spike.

I dont have any reason to believe COV deaths are being exaggerated, the COV “reported deaths” are lower than this “all cause” increase in raw unclassified/uncoded numbers.

What else but COVID. If related to lockdown/stay at home I would expect March and April and May to spike, not June, July after stay at home was lifted and we went to Phase II

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

wii - I do agree that we should be able to determine the "true" deaths by looking at the overall death rates for period comparison.
What has to be factored in, is the spike in death rates caused by the lockdowns, which resulted in people not wanting to visit doctors or hospitals.
Also, by medical personnel who stopped working because of their fear (and yes I know of several cases of this).
Other factors would include the rise in the number of suicides and the theoretical decrease of auto accident deaths, due to fewer miles being driven.
A HUGE factor would be the refusal of many in the medical establishment to use HCQ for preventative or early diagnosis treatment.
How many did that kill?
Waiting for a study to come out that looks at all these, but that will be a couple of years from now.

Don't forget the Ivermectin protocol, too.

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Don't forget the Ivermectin protocol, too.

And the Zelenko protocol I think has alternatives to HCQ.

It is helpful to understand that these protocols really have nothing to do with the invisible, phantom so-called virus, even if they are written up in virus language in a paper.

They simply help expedite blood-oxygen transmission. (My understanding, so far.) The root causes can be toxic buildup from poor diet, radiation, 5G, or any combination of factors.