His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
I know God is not triune.
Andrew Urshan’s ruminations on the Godhead frequently were expressed in categories such as ‘tri–unity’, the ‘blessed three–ness of God’, and ‘God as a triune being......
Andrew Urshan’s ruminations on the Godhead frequently were expressed in categories such as ‘tri–unity’, the ‘blessed three–ness of God’, and ‘God as a triune being......
But what does the Bible say?
All of the oneness folks in the early part of the last century came out of Trinitarian churches. They had to unlearn some things as they came into more of the truth of who God is. I've never read anything AU has written but what he believes in no way changes what I understand from the scriptures.
Can you show me a clear teaching of the doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible?
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
The doctrine of the trinity as defined by tri-theism or three actual PERSONS as we understand the word persons, is unbiblical and erroneous.
However, to ascribe eternal damnation to a person who has not received something that ONLY God can give, IMO, is worse than the doctrine in question. Remember, we're not talking about people living in licenciousness or wanton sin. We're talking about people who have been transformed by the word of God and multitudes even filled with His Spirit. Many of these have even been baptized in Jesus' name even though they don't completely understand why.
I'm all for walking in more and more truth, but to proclaim that these people are hell-bound, I believe, is to add to the word of God. That is VERY dangerous ground to be standing on, for sure. That is ground that I am not willing to defend, stand on or even give credence to one iota.
We need to be careful that we view our "dogma" through scripture and not scripture through dogma.
__________________
"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
The doctrine of the trinity as defined by tri-theism or three actual PERSONS as we understand the word persons, is unbiblical and erroneous.
However, to ascribe eternal damnation to a person who has not received something that ONLY God can give, IMO, is worse than the doctrine in question. Remember, we're not talking about people living in licenciousness or wanton sin. We're talking about people who have been transformed by the word of God and multitudes even filled with His Spirit. Many of these have even been baptized in Jesus' name even though they don't completely understand why.
I'm all for walking in more and more truth, but to proclaim that these people are hell-bound, I believe, is to add to the word of God. That is VERY dangerous ground to be standing on, for sure. That is ground that I am not willing to defend, stand on or even give credence to one iota.
We need to be careful that we view our "dogma" through scripture and not scripture through dogma.
I'm not proclaiming that Trinitarians are hell bound. But I do have a reasonable doubt according to the word of God.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
The doctrine of the trinity as defined by tri-theism or three actual PERSONS as we understand the word persons, is unbiblical and erroneous.
However, to ascribe eternal damnation to a person who has not received something that ONLY God can give, IMO, is worse than the doctrine in question. Remember, we're not talking about people living in licenciousness or wanton sin. We're talking about people who have been transformed by the word of God and multitudes even filled with His Spirit. Many of these have even been baptized in Jesus' name even though they don't completely understand why.
I'm all for walking in more and more truth, but to proclaim that these people are hell-bound, I believe, is to add to the word of God. That is VERY dangerous ground to be standing on, for sure. That is ground that I am not willing to defend, stand on or even give credence to one iota.
We need to be careful that we view our "dogma" through scripture and not scripture through dogma.
Great points! Alot of the people in the "oneness movement" do not know the difference between tri-theism. There is a world of difference there. I especially like your last part. "We need to be careful that we view our Dogma through scripture and not scripture through dogma." That is so, so true!
Great points! Alot of the people in the "oneness movement" do not know the difference between tri-theism. There is a world of difference there. I especially like your last part. "We need to be careful that we view our Dogma through scripture and not scripture through dogma." That is so, so true!
it is only a great point if you believe remission comes at repentance.
it is not a great point if you believe one must repent,be baptized in Jesus name and recieve the HG to be saved.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
The doctrine of the trinity as defined by tri-theism or three actual PERSONS as we understand the word persons, is unbiblical and erroneous.
However, to ascribe eternal damnation to a person who has not received something that ONLY God can give, IMO, is worse than the doctrine in question. Remember, we're not talking about people living in licenciousness or wanton sin. We're talking about people who have been transformed by the word of God and multitudes even filled with His Spirit. Many of these have even been baptized in Jesus' name even though they don't completely understand why.
I'm all for walking in more and more truth, but to proclaim that these people are hell-bound, I believe, is to add to the word of God. That is VERY dangerous ground to be standing on, for sure. That is ground that I am not willing to defend, stand on or even give credence to one iota.
We need to be careful that we view our "dogma" through scripture and not scripture through dogma.
Of course that is your view! you believe that people are saved when they repent. clearly we dont agree on that.
But as much as you see my view in error, I see yours in equal error. (we are back to "all trinitarians are lost")
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Of course that is your view! you believe that people are saved when they repent. clearly we dont agree on that.
But as much as you see my view in error, I see yours in equal error. (we are back to "all trinitarians are lost")
The deal is that you said, "I believe that the doctrine of the trinity is the devils single greatest weapon. It is delusion on the grandest scale and has caused more people to go to hell than any other thing that has ever come to us."
I said does that mean you believe that even if people repent, get baptized in Jesus' name, receive the HGB and live an overcoming life that they are eternally lost if they can't or are having a hard time shaking their trinitarian indoctrination? (this is not a hypothetical)
I also said, "If trinitarianism is a "doctrine of devils" (and I am oneness through and through) then what "demonic" activity does it lead those people into? What godless behavior does it promote? What is the "damnable action" those who subscribe to it engage in?
Care to address those, please?
__________________
"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
The deal is that you said, "I believe that the doctrine of the trinity is the devils single greatest weapon. It is delusion on the grandest scale and has caused more people to go to hell than any other thing that has ever come to us."
I said does that mean you believe that even if people repent, get baptized in Jesus' name, receive the HGB and live an overcoming life that they are eternally lost if they can't or are having a hard time shaking their trinitarian indoctrination? (this is not a hypothetical)
I also said, "If trinitarianism is a "doctrine of devils" (and I am oneness through and through) then what "demonic" activity does it lead those people into? What godless behavior does it promote? What is the "damnable action" those who subscribe to it engage in?
Care to address those, please?
MOW, I realize that there are some people who have a trinitarian view of God but have obeyed Acts 2:38. I honestly believe that they have been obedient to the word of God and are not lost.
I know that some Water Spirit people differ with me on that view. Some believe without a revalation of the Mighty God in Christ, you serve another Jesus.
however, considering that the doctrine of the trinity, the vast vast vast majority of all trinitarians were and are baptized in the titles which is IMHO the same as not being baptzied.
in particular, that doctrine leads people into a false sense of salvational security. maybe they dont become adulterers or drunks but they are lost none the less.
I know you dont agree and that is fine with me. but if you are Water Spirit in doctrine, you believe there is only one door.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
MOW, I realize that there are some people who have a trinitarian view of God but have obeyed Acts 2:38. I honestly believe that they have been obedient to the word of God and are not lost.
I know that some Water Spirit people differ with me on that view. Some believe without a revalation of the Mighty God in Christ, you serve another Jesus.
however, considering that the doctrine of the trinity, the vast vast vast majority of all trinitarians were and are baptized in the titles which is IMHO the same as not being baptzied.
in particular, that doctrine leads people into a false sense of salvational security. maybe they dont become adulterers or drunks but they are lost none the less.
I know you dont agree and that is fine with me. but if you are Water Spirit in doctrine, you believe there is only one door.
Gee - seems someone mention being the door in the bible? Who was that?
Anyway - see this is the problem with oneness theology...well one of several.. you think salvation can be had by proper baptism.. THIS IS IN YOUR MIND the "one door" ... others think it to be Christ alone.. We find our salvation in Him alone, and that is BIBLICALLY SUFFICIENT
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
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