Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

There should be a thread about, “where did the UPCI, WPF, ALJC, AMF…..” get a lot of their standards, and bylaws from.

For example,

Where did the ________ get….
-Tithing
-Membership dues
-Conferences that charge admission
-Rapture doctrine
-Ministry Retirement Accounts
-Theatre Plays that Charge Admission
-Membership Insurance Plans
-First Lady

Several just want to focus on tithing because it has to deal with individual pockets. However, there is a list of things that organizations, religious no less, require to either benefit the local leadership, or the organization as a whole. I mean there is one organization that I know that you cannot join unless you pay a membership due each month. You also HAVE to sign a statement of faith that you believe in the 2nd coming of Christ.

I mean it could all change, look how it changed from the 80’s, 90’s and even the early 00’s many preachers were against TV’s, now almost all of us have one, yet we call it a phone. Many of us were against Televangelist’s, now many preachers, conferences, have become what they used to stand against.

Give it a couple years, maybe tithing will change. And we’ll all go back to bringing food to the storehouse. That may be needed more than Monopoly money.

Nicodemus, I know some get in "hero-self-sacrifice-loable" mode and ask "why such a deal with the pockets?" And, who can argue with someone proud of their sacrifices?

But this is the reality, when someone finds out that some minor Holiness things like ladies wearing tights for the snow is not a big deal as someone puts it because is not a "split garment", then that person just say "oh well, that was dumb, not a big deal".

However, when someone realizes that the modern tithing doctrine is a falsehood, that person feels abused, taken advantaged of, especially if you "sacrificed" your household and piled debt, or didn't move to a safer neighborhood, or didn't help parents as much as desired, etc...

Some falsehods you can recover from without much problem and you just overlook them, ... others, in the other hand, do creates strong feelings. Those "next level" falsehoods are usually the ones that give the perpetrator some money, power (controlling), or sex advantage over the deceived one.

I believe the Pentecostal movement has a strong tradition on people's mind that they struggle to get rid of. But I believe the time will come, when preachers and teachers and pastors preaching that doctrine will look bad to the congregations, and lose reputation, and look as deceitful to the people more and more, and it will create a counter reaction and a split. Remember, that lie is so easy to debunk, and the truth is so accessible nowadays. I just hope the split do not end up becoming like those that go all the way even to drop Holiness as some have done. The best case scenario is that the UPCI itself removes the tithing article so other churches that disagree with that obviously false doctrine can be part of the fellowship, so there is no an actual split.

Churches can perfectly function without tithing. There are plenty of examples in other organizations.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by coksiw

….. The best case scenario is that the UPCI itself removes the tithing article so other churches that disagree with that obviously false doctrine can be part of the fellowship, so there is no an actual split.

Churches can perfectly function without tithing. There are plenty of examples in other organizations.

Why does the UPCI or other organizations need to stop doing what they’ve been doing? It seems like you’re trying to change an organization, how about trying to influence an individual.

The UPCI, WPF, AMF, etc… are man made organizations, they’re structured like the pyramid. What else do you expect from a man made organization? Do we expect something greater? Why, because they believe in Acts 2:38, One God so on and so forth.

We can complain about the bylaws of an organization, however do not become a part of it. You’re not saved because of a membership, you’re saved by his Spirit.

I used those examples as a way to say, man changes, man says one thing today and something different tomorrow. Maybe one day the UPCI changes its stance on giving. You may not believe in tithing today, but maybe someday you will. Time will tell….

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Why does the UPCI or other organizations need to stop doing what they’ve been doing? It seems like you’re trying to change an organization, how about trying to influence an individual.

The UPCI, WPF, AMF, etc… are man made organizations, they’re structured like the pyramid. What else do you expect from a man made organization? Do we expect something greater? Why, because they believe in Acts 2:38, One God so on and so forth.

We can complain about the bylaws of an organization, however do not become a part of it. You’re not saved because of a membership, you’re saved by his Spirit.

I used those examples as a way to say, man changes, man says one thing today and something different tomorrow. Maybe one day the UPCI changes its stance on giving. You may not believe in tithing today, but maybe someday you will. Time will tell….

I consider the UPCI, WPF, etc... people my brethren also. I have no problem with organized efforts, and fellowship. There is no problem with reforms if it makes us align better with the Biblical blueprint, but also, nothing wrong with determining what our true core beliefs are that unites us, and the ones that we allow variances about.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by coksiw

I consider the UPCI, WPF, etc... people my brethren also. I have no problem with organized efforts, and fellowship. There is no problem with reforms if it makes us align better with the Biblical blueprint, but also, nothing wrong with determining what our true core beliefs are that unites us, and the ones that we allow variances about.

That’s fine.

Then the UPCI, WPF are going to structure that organization to support and fund their beliefs that best suits their organization. And a main belief is tithing or giving. They’re not going to want apples and grapes to pay for their airplane travels, or send rams skins to help build a church in the foreign missions.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

That’s fine.

Then the UPCI, WPF are going to structure that organization to support and fund their beliefs that best suits their organization. And a main belief is tithing or giving. They’re not going to want apples and grapes to pay for their airplane travels, or send rams skins to help build a church in the foreign missions.

I see your sarcasm but I have never said I wanted tithing to be produce. I don’t believe that’s even applicable to outside Israel, or even inside Israel after thr cross and the ending of the Levitical priesthood.

I have no problem whatsoever to fund initiatives and teachers with money. My only problem is the falsehood behind the illegitimate 10% tax, and the lack of compassion resulting from that falsehood on the low income people (elders and disabled people living off social security, low income families, broken families, etc…) that are banned from participating, and made feel guilty, and are robbed from their necessities.

I know many Pastors are indeed compassionate and overlook failures to pay tithes and don’t preach hard on it. But many are not. I prefer the falsehood is done with and giving goes back to what the NT intended. I believe Oneness Pentecostalism needs to break from that abusive tradition. The organizations change or good Holiness non-full-preterist alternatives show up so saints can escape from that.

[Evang.Benincasa]

How did tithing come into the UPC?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

How did tithing come into the UPC?

You mean NT tithing of all income? My best guess is from when joining with the PAW.

At the beginning of the Asuza revival Seumour was very critical of preachers earning salaries, even from tithing (or accusing them of preaching for money). But towards the end, he was a lot "friendlier" to the concept, and even testified of some tongues and interpretations mandating it (year 1908):

A man 83 years of age, who had preached the Gospel for 40 years the best
he could and with the blessing of the Lord on his labors, received the baptism
of the Holy Ghost when the fire first fell. He came back lately and said that
this had been the best year of all his life in the blessing of the Lord. He
had had more joy and real salvation than in all the 40 years of his ministry.
The power of God came on him, and he reeled like a drunken man. It was as
on the Day of Pentecost, when Peter said, "These are not drunken as ye
suppose, but this is that." He spoke in tongues, which was interpreted:
"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat
in Mine house, and prove Me now herewith, saith the Lord of Hosts, if I will
not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing that there
shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for
your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruit of your ground; neither shall
your vine cast her fruit before the time, said the Lord of Hosts." Mal.
3:10-11. This precious brother was so deaf he could not hear a testimony unless
the person was close to him; but the Lord opened his ears, and he now hears
every thing.

So, the tithing was kind of a strong concept from the beginning of the American Pentecostal movement.

As contrast, the Apostolic movements (oneness, Acts 2:38) oustide of the USA, didn't have tithing as a core doctrine, but slowly, over the years, the UPCI traveling around the world convinced many of those ministers to join the UPCI and depart from their original Apostolic Movement.

Here is an example from "To the end of the Earth" book from Bernard:

The Yugoslav Apostolics didn’t believe in ties (because they were excessive ornamentation) or tithes (because there was no explicit New Testament command).

That book is an interesting read, BTW.