Firearms Refresher Course

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Brother Strange, surely you jest. Do you really believe that nothing has changed from the Old Testament (OT) to the New Testament (NT)? Well let’s look….

OT: Mostly types and shadows of what was to come
NT: Jesus completes and explains that all is written of Him

Evidently you are not going to stand still long enough to discuss the subject. Now you want to talk about the difference in Law and Grace.

Whew!

Shall I go on? So, Brother Strange, is it just that God is the same God in the OT and NT, or that things changed from the OT to the NT?

God is the same. His attitude is the same. His mind is the same. Nothing has changed about God.

God was just as merciful and full of loving kindness and compassion under the Law as he is under grace. His mercy endureth forever, regardless of the CHANGING dispensations. Yes, dispensations has changed, but don't look now...God has NOT.

Now, my original question you have YET to answer. Let’s try again; using your reasoning that all things are the same, are we still to kill disobedient children by stoning? Remember, this is from the same One God. oloroid

I still await your answer….

Gracious!

You still don't get it. If you would get out of long enough to listen, you will see that the question is not a question at all. It is totally MOOT.

If we were still living under the Law, that commandment would have to be carried out according to the precepts of the Law.

But, hello! Listening?

There was no LAW requirement to defend family and country, neither in the civil, ceremonial or moral LAW. This being said, there were prescribed methods of GOING to war when God called upon them to do so, being led by the Captain of the Lord's (army) host. But this had to be so because the CHURCH in the wilderness was a NATURAL church with NATURAL armies, being a NATURAL people. The church TODAY is neither natural or under those prescribed LAWS.

Therefore, the church does not march off to war anymore than they kill disobedient children. I think that I probably said this in at least a dozen different ways. Capital punishment of the disobedient as is the function of war is left up to another God inspired and instituted entity...that being our government which we are commanded in the N.T. to be obedient and subject to those higher powers.

shaking......

Rise and shine and smell the

[TK Burk]

[QUOTE=Brother Strange;218474]

Evidently you are not going to stand still long enough to discuss the subject. Now you want to talk about the difference in Law and Grace.

Whew!

God is the same. His attitude is the same. His mind is the same. Nothing has changed about God.

God was just as merciful and full of loving kindness and compassion under the Law as he is under grace. His mercy endureth forever, regardless of the CHANGING dispensations. Yes, dispensations has changed, but don't look now...God has NOT.

Gracious!

You still don't get it. If you would get out of long enough to listen, you will see that the question is not a question at all. It is totally MOOT.

If we were still living under the Law, that commandment would have to be carried out according to the precepts of the Law.

But, hello! Listening?

There was no LAW requirement to defend family and country, neither in the civil, ceremonial or moral LAW. This being said, there were prescribed methods of GOING to war when God called upon them to do so, being led by the Captain of the Lord's (army) host. But this had to be so because the CHURCH in the wilderness was a NATURAL church with NATURAL armies, being a NATURAL people. The church TODAY is neither natural or under those prescribed LAWS.

Therefore, the church does not match off to war anymore than they kill disobedient children. I think that I probably said this in at least a dozen different ways. Capital punishment of the disobedient as is the function of war is left up to another God inspired and instituted entity...that being our government which we are commanded in the N.T. to be obedient and subject to those higher powers.

shaking......

Rise and shine and smell the

Brother Strange, why are you so unkind? I think I have more than shown myself to be willing to talk about these things. Why do you treat me so unkindly?

Are you ever going to deal with my question? Are we still to kill disobedient children by stoning? Remember, this is from the same One God.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: (19) Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; (20) And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. (21) And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

You are the one who will not discuss this in a way that makes sense. I keep asking you the same thing, and you keep jumping to another issue. Let's try this again: What about Deut. 21:18-21?

[QUOTE][QUOTE=Lost and Found;218485]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Brother Strange, why are you so unkind? I think I have more than shown myself to be willing to talk about these things. Why do you treat me so unkindly?

I'm sorry if you think me unkind. Really, I am not. I suppose my pointed response comes across that way, but I am really very sweet. Ask my adoring wife... :d

Are you ever going to deal with my question? Are we still to kill disobedient children by stoning? Remember, this is from the same One God.

I've dealt with it. I am surprised that you still keep asking what I at first considered a moot point since you did not recognize it yourself.

You are the one who will not discuss this in a way that makes sense. I keep asking you the same thing, and you keep jumping to another issue. Let's try this again: What about Deut. 21:18-21?

What about Deut. 21:18-21?

God has not changed his mind or his attitude either. God is all for Capital punishement. However, it is as it always has been, capital punishment is under the direction and discretion of Civil Government. Still is as it was then. Some are against putting to death those who have commited certain crimes, being so much a misguided pacificist that they are blinded to the capital punishment concept. We do not haul criminals before the church nowadays. We haul them up before GOVERNMENTAL magistrates who meet out punishment that fits the crime....as it has always been...even under the Mosiac Law. Civil government invovles civil LAW. The civil law was not the function of the priesthood but rather of the King. There were separation of powers even back then. Remember Hezekiah who thought that he could, as a King, also officiate in the office of the Priest. God smote him with Leoporsy. Division of God instituted powers are the same today. There is the church, being a kingdom of Priests and there is also the government under whom we are to submit ourselves.

Nothing has changed in this regard.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

What about Deut. 21:18-21?

God has not changed his mind or his attitude either. God is all for Capital punishement. However, it is as it always has been, capital punishment is under the direction and discretion of Civil Government. Still is as it was then. Some are against putting to death those who have commited certain crimes, being so much a misguided pacificist that they are blinded to the capital punishment concept. We do not haul criminals before the church nowadays. We haul them up before GOVERNMENTAL magistrates who meet out punishment that fits the crime....as it has always been...even under the Mosiac Law. Civil government invovles civil LAW. The civil law was not the function of the priesthood but rather of the King. There were separation of powers even back then. Remember Hezekiah who thought that he could, as a King, also officiate in the office of the Priest. God smote him with Leoporsy. Division of God instituted powers are the same today. There is the church, being a kingdom of Priests and there is also the government under whom we are to submit ourselves.

Nothing has changed in this regard.

Elder, Deut. 21 is saying parents are to turn in their disobedient children for capitol punishment. THAT is what it says. So do you believe that the government should still do this and that believing parents should obey and follow this command?

Remember, I am NOT for such punishment because I believe that Jesus gave us a better system in the New Covenant. Remember, He showed us that the end of the command is LOVE.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Elder, Deut. 21 is saying parents are to turn in their disobedient children for capitol punishment. THAT is what it says. So do you believe that the government should still do this and that believing parents should obey and follow this command?

Remember, I am NOT for such punishment because I believe that Jesus gave us a better system in the New Covenant. Remember, He showed us that the end of the command is LOVE.

Find out why the Orthodox Jews don't follow this law, and you may have your answer.

The law was given to provide a greater picture, a system of principles, and insight into the nature and heart of God, that was not obliterated by the cross when the tedious rules and regulations were.

In this instance, we may look at this former requirement and see that God is adamantly against disobedient and lazy children, and we should look seriously into the business of training children to be obedient, truthful, industrious, and loving.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Find out why the Orthodox Jews don't follow this law, and you may have your answer.

The law was given to provide a greater picture, a system of principles, and insight into the nature and heart of God, that was not obliterated by the cross when the tedious rules and regulations were.

In this instance, we may look at this former requirement and see that God is adamantly against disobedient and lazy children, and we should look seriously into the business of training children to be obedient, truthful, industrious, and loving.

OP Carl, I never asked this because I needed the answer. I even said that in my original post. I asked this because of what Brother Strange said concerning God's OT ways not being different today. You are WAY out of sync in this discussion.