The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Sabellius

"The three verbs [as] primarily metaphors of salvation, each expressing a special facet of their conversion in light of the preceding sentences: they had been “washed” from the filth of their former life-styles expressed in the preceding list; they had been “sanctified,” set apart by God for holy, godly living that stands in stark contrast to their former wickedness; though formerly “unjust,” they had been justified, so that now right with God they may inherit the kingdom that before they could not. Each of the verbs is thus chosen for contextual, not dogmatic, reasons; and their sequence is theologically irrelevant. "*

* Gordon D. Fee, The New International Commentary on the New Testament, The First Epistle to the Corinthians (Grand Rapids, MI: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1987), 246.

and the point is.

[JN Anderson]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

and the point is.

Hmmmm...

This is the passage that Bernard feels is the strongest statement linking justification with the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:11). There are three phrases in 1 Corinthians 6:11, they are given special emphasis in the Greek by the repetition of "but" (KJV). However, to repeat this word three times would be awkard in our English idiom. These three clauses refer to different aspects, rather than successive stages, of what God has done for believers. A translation such as "you were purified, then dedicated, then put right with God"(1) would be wrong. Paul is talking about some happenings in the overall picture of the Holy Spirit working in our lives. This is the Spirit of God doing these things generally, not that the declaration of Justificaton ONLY happens at the Spirit baptism.

Also, the normal understanding of remission of sins is to be connected in Acts 2:38 with repentance and baptism. Are we really ready to say that we are not "washing" until we are baptized by the Holy Spirit? This is the logical conclusion if we say that justification does not occur until we are Holy Spirit baptized.

NOTES:

1. Ellingworth, P., Hatton, H., & Ellingworth, P. (1995). A handbook on Paul's first letter to the Corinthians. Rev. ed. of: A translator's handbook on Paul's first letter to the Corinthians. UBS handbook series; Helps for translators (131). New York: United Bible Societies.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Sabellius

Hmmmm...

This is the passage that Bernard feels is the strongest statement linking justification with the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:11). There are three phrases in 1 Corinthians 6:11, they are given special emphasis in the Greek by the repetition of "but" (KJV). However, to repeat this word three times would be awkard in our English idiom. These three clauses refer to different aspects, rather than successive stages, of what God has done for believers. A translation such as "you were purified, then dedicated, then put right with God" would be wrong. Paul is talking about some happenings in the overall picture of the Holy Spirit working in our lives. This is the Spirit of God doing these things generally, not that the declaration of Justificaton ONLY happens at the Spirit baptism.

Also, the normal understanding of remission of sins is to be connected in Acts 2:38 with repentance and baptism. Are we really ready to say that we are not "washing" until we are baptized by the Holy Spirit? This is the logical conclusion if we say that justification does not occur until we are Holy Spirit baptized.

Interesting ... I will post at the justification thread also.

Originally Posted by Sabellius

Hmmmm...

This is the passage that Bernard feels is the strongest statement linking justification with the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:11). There are three phrases in 1 Corinthians 6:11, they are given special emphasis in the Greek by the repetition of "but" (KJV). However, to repeat this word three times would be awkard in our English idiom. These three clauses refer to different aspects, rather than successive stages, of what God has done for believers. A translation such as "you were purified, then dedicated, then put right with God"(1) would be wrong. Paul is talking about some happenings in the overall picture of the Holy Spirit working in our lives. This is the Spirit of God doing these things generally, not that the declaration of Justificaton ONLY happens at the Spirit baptism.

Also, the normal understanding of remission of sins is to be connected in Acts 2:38 with repentance and baptism. Are we really ready to say that we are not "washing" until we are baptized by the Holy Spirit? This is the logical conclusion if we say that justification does not occur until we are Holy Spirit baptized.

NOTES:

1. Ellingworth, P., Hatton, H., & Ellingworth, P. (1995). A handbook on Paul's first letter to the Corinthians. Rev. ed. of: A translator's handbook on Paul's first letter to the Corinthians. UBS handbook series; Helps for translators (131). New York: United Bible Societies.

I'm not sure I agree with this assessment of 1 Corinthians 6:11. I think Paul used the specific words he used, in the order that he used them, for a reason. I think Paul really was saying of those who used to be characterized by the sins in 1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Such WERE some of you" (emphasis mine) "but you were washed" (as in your sins were washed away by the blood of the Lamb), "but you were sanctified" (as in set apart for God's use, not in the sense of progressive sanctification) and "you were justified" (as in "You're guilty but Jesus bore your punishment for you"). I think Paul put them in this order as an intentional succession. The way people (the Levitical priesthood, for example) and things (the things used in the service of the tabernacle, for example) were set apart for God's use was through washing. It was only after the washing was completed that they were considered sanctified or set apart for God's use. It was then, after the blood of the Lamb had been applied in the washing that those in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 were justified, i.e. declared guilty but allowed to be beneficiaries of Jesus' propitiating work on the cross (His punishment on their behalf).

[JN Anderson]

Originally Posted by Chan

I'm not sure I agree with this assessment of 1 Corinthians 6:11. I think Paul used the specific words he used, in the order that he used them, for a reason. I think Paul really was saying of those who used to be characterized by the sins in 1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Such WERE some of you" (emphasis mine) "but you were washed" (as in your sins were washed away by the blood of the Lamb), "but you were sanctified" (as in set apart for God's use, not in the sense of progressive sanctification) and "you were justified" (as in "You're guilty but Jesus bore your punishment for you"). I think Paul put them in this order as an intentional succession. The way people (the Levitical priesthood, for example) and things (the things used in the service of the tabernacle, for example) were set apart for God's use was through washing. It was only after the washing was completed that they were considered sanctified or set apart for God's use. It was then, after the blood of the Lamb had been applied in the washing that those in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 were justified, i.e. declared guilty but allowed to be beneficiaries of Jesus' propitiating work on the cross (His punishment on their behalf).

I understand. But, what about this part --

There are three phrases in 1 Corinthians 6:11, they are given special emphasis in the Greek by the repetition of "but" (KJV). However, to repeat this word three times would be awkard in our English idiom. These three clauses refer to different aspects, rather than successive stages, of what God has done for believers.

How do you explain away the repitions? Do you realize the implications?

Originally Posted by Sabellius

I understand. But, what about this part --

There are three phrases in 1 Corinthians 6:11, they are given special emphasis in the Greek by the repetition of "but" (KJV). However, to repeat this word three times would be awkard in our English idiom. These three clauses refer to different aspects, rather than successive stages, of what God has done for believers.

How do you explain away the repitions? Do you realize the implications?

I don't have a problem with the repetitions at all. To me they suggest successive stages in the manner I explained in the previous post. I don't think the order is irrelevant; rather, I think the order is very important.