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  #1  
Old 08-21-2007, 05:48 PM
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Timmy Timmy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost and Found View Post
Timmy, you are not answering this. Of course this IS about Jesus. My question concerns His birth. This came from His OT plan. Look again. You need to look up what the Law and the Law Giver--Jesus--said about the Law. Look again, Timmy.
What am I not answering? I answered your question about Joseph. But I don't see the relevance to my question about example.

You are Oneness, aren't you? You do believe that Jesus = God, throughout the NT and OT, don't you? You said Jesus is our example in all things. Well, is he always our example, or is he not? If not, how can we tell when he is and when he is not?
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  #2  
Old 08-21-2007, 05:53 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
What am I not answering? I answered your question about Joseph. But I don't see the relevance to my question about example.

You are Oneness, aren't you? You do believe that Jesus = God, throughout the NT and OT, don't you? You said Jesus is our example in all things. Well, is he always our example, or is he not? If not, how can we tell when he is and when he is not?
Did you answer me? Are you attending a church? Are you Trinitarian?
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  #3  
Old 08-21-2007, 06:02 PM
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Timmy Timmy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Did you answer me? Are you attending a church? Are you Trinitarian?
Yes, I attend church. I am a trinitarian who sees merit to both sides. There is a oneness in God's nature, and there is a threeness. I'm content to leave it at that. I don't see how either side can be so dogmatic about it, even to the point of saying the other side is lost.
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My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?
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  #4  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:00 PM
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TK Burk TK Burk is offline
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Location: Wisconsin
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Timmy,

Thanks for your question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
What am I not answering? I answered your question about Joseph. But I don't see the relevance to my question about example.

You are Oneness, aren't you? You do believe that Jesus = God, throughout the NT and OT, don't you? You said Jesus is our example in all things. Well, is he always our example, or is he not? If not, how can we tell when he is and when he is not?
Timmy,

I was hoping you could perceive the significance of Joseph and Mary's example. Let me try to make it simpler: Joseph was commanded to stone Mary for her 'sin.' But, being a "just man" (one who obeyed the Law), he saw that the letter of the Law said death, but the spirit of the Law desired life. That is why he did not consider having her killed. Choice. That is what it is all about. And LOVE is always at the end of the command!

This is so basic to Christianity. Let me try it with the following illustration:

Remember John and James’ request?

Luke 9:54-55 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elijah did? (55) But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

Why was such vengeance acceptable during Elijah’s time, but not during the New Testament? Why did Jesus say that Zebedee’s, “Sons of Thunder, were asking for something that was of a “different spirit” than Jesus’? I am not asking because I need this answer; this question is for you….

God used to wink at a lot of things in the Old Testament that the New Testament says He now calls all men to repent for. Jesus said Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of their Old-Testament-hearts, but then He raised the standard for all men in the New Testament and showed that a new heart should bring deeper commitment. Jesus had a woman caught in adultery cast before His feet to see if He would agree with stoning her as commanded through Moses. What did Jesus do? He showed that judgment was not the highest standard of His kingdom. Instead He showed mercy. Timmy, Jesus’ kingdom is built on His blood, not on His enemy’s. Jesus’ kingdom is to be known for love and mercy, not for hate and judgment. How can we demonstrate these godly traits when fighting a war or when killing another man?

Look at the changes from the Old to the New Testament:

OT: Mostly types and shadows of what was to come
NT: Jesus completes and explains that all is written of Him

OT: Physical Tabernacle and Temple were built
NT: Man becomes the Temple of God

OT: Man has a hardened heart
NT: Man is given a new heart

OT: God’s commands are written on tables of stone
NT: God’s commands are written on a believer’s heart

OT: One man, the High Priest, approaches God once a year
NT: All believers are priests having equal access to God at all times

OT: God calls a nation of people to Himself
NT: God calls men of all nations to Himself

OT: Mostly about the Law of God
NT: Mostly about the grace of God

OT: A God, whose glory no man could behold
NT: A God, whose glory men beheld and handled

OT: Animal blood was shed for man’s sins
NT: God’s own blood was shed for man’s sins

OT: Men strived for salvation through the letter
NT: Men received salvation through the Spirit

Timmy, have things changed from the OT to the NT?

It's not that God is or isn't the same God in both the OT and NT, but that we have been called to change from our old ways to Jesus’ new and better ways. That is what the New Covenant is all about: new heart, new nature, new Spirit inside, better Covenant, new creature! Read the book of Hebrews. It confirms what I am saying.
__________________
The Bible is open to those that want Truth, and if they want Truth, they find Truth. They watch individuals squabble over Bible symbolism on the Internet, and leave the Message boards to enter into the real world where live people dwell, and they find Truth. The World Wide Web is full of Internet Ayatollahs who speak their mind. There is only one Truth, and it is not hidden. No matter what anyone says, Truth still converts the sincere.
 -DD Benincasa, 12/06/03

www.tkburk.com
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  #5  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:10 PM
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Hoovie Hoovie is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
I have hardly enough time to just read this thread... but for such a timely and profound post - THANK YOU!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost and Found View Post
Timmy,

Thanks for your question.



Timmy,

I was hoping you could perceive the significance of Joseph and Mary's example. Let me try to make it simpler: Joseph was commanded to stone Mary for her 'sin.' But, being a "just man" (one who obeyed the Law), he saw that the letter of the Law said death, but the spirit of the Law desired life. That is why he did not consider having her killed. Choice. That is what it is all about. And LOVE is always at the end of the command!

This is so basic to Christianity. Let me try it with the following illustration:

Remember John and James’ request?

Luke 9:54-55 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elijah did? (55) But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

Why was such vengeance acceptable during Elijah’s time, but not during the New Testament? Why did Jesus say that Zebedee’s, “Sons of Thunder, were asking for something that was of a “different spirit” than Jesus’? I am not asking because I need this answer; this question is for you….

God used to wink at a lot of things in the Old Testament that the New Testament says He now calls all men to repent for. Jesus said Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of their Old-Testament-hearts, but then He raised the standard for all men in the New Testament and showed that a new heart should bring deeper commitment. Jesus had a woman caught in adultery cast before His feet to see if He would agree with stoning her as commanded through Moses. What did Jesus do? He showed that judgment was not the highest standard of His kingdom. Instead He showed mercy. Timmy, Jesus’ kingdom is built on His blood, not on His enemy’s. Jesus’ kingdom is to be known for love and mercy, not for hate and judgment. How can we demonstrate these godly traits when fighting a war or when killing another man?

Look at the changes from the Old to the New Testament:

OT: Mostly types and shadows of what was to come
NT: Jesus completes and explains that all is written of Him

OT: Physical Tabernacle and Temple were built
NT: Man becomes the Temple of God

OT: Man has a hardened heart
NT: Man is given a new heart

OT: God’s commands are written on tables of stone
NT: God’s commands are written on a believer’s heart

OT: One man, the High Priest, approaches God once a year
NT: All believers are priests having equal access to God at all times

OT: God calls a nation of people to Himself
NT: God calls men of all nations to Himself

OT: Mostly about the Law of God
NT: Mostly about the grace of God

OT: A God, whose glory no man could behold
NT: A God, whose glory men beheld and handled

OT: Animal blood was shed for man’s sins
NT: God’s own blood was shed for man’s sins

OT: Men strived for salvation through the letter
NT: Men received salvation through the Spirit

Timmy, have things changed from the OT to the NT?

It's not that God is or isn't the same God in both the OT and NT, but that we have been called to change from our old ways to Jesus’ new and better ways. That is what the New Covenant is all about: new heart, new nature, new Spirit inside, better Covenant, new creature! Read the book of Hebrews. It confirms what I am saying.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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  #6  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:11 PM
TK Burk's Avatar
TK Burk TK Burk is offline
Lamb Saved & Shepherd Led


 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover View Post
I have hardly enough time to just read this thread... but for such a timely and profound post - THANK YOU!
Bless you my Brother!
__________________
The Bible is open to those that want Truth, and if they want Truth, they find Truth. They watch individuals squabble over Bible symbolism on the Internet, and leave the Message boards to enter into the real world where live people dwell, and they find Truth. The World Wide Web is full of Internet Ayatollahs who speak their mind. There is only one Truth, and it is not hidden. No matter what anyone says, Truth still converts the sincere.
 -DD Benincasa, 12/06/03

www.tkburk.com
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