Firearms Refresher Course

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

How was I not being civil to you personally? I don't see anyone else here being civil to me, however you made some points that I am pointing out are irrelevant. Nobody here is advocating rendering evil for evil or retribution. You are or were comparing apples to oranges.

Also I fail to see why this discussion has to be on YOUR terms...you and EB and L&F by saying "from a new testament point of view".

What's with the "new Testament point of view" all of a sudden? Why is it on some issues we can use the OT but on others we are limited to the NT? That's awefully convenient don't you think?

It would be interesting to see if StMatt, EB and L&F would promise right here and now to NEVER EVER use the OT again. To prove and sustain and substantiate everything from the NT only.

The entire bible makes a clear distinction between murdering someone and taking a life for other reasons, even accidentally. We all agree murder and retribution is wrong. Posting scriptures over and over, repeating them that prove retribution is wrong is firing off in the wrong direction. Self defense and protecting someones life is NOT retribution, vengeance or pay back.

You guys can post those verses over and over but they don't address the topic of self defense or defending a loved one from harm

Prax,

That is what I see in their arguments too. There is a serious deficit in communication, or a bait-and-switch, or something.

You've decided to hold out until you talk them in to giving up. Have fun with that. Or not.

I've decided to do other things.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Prax,

That is what I see in their arguments too. There is a serious deficit in communication, or a bait-and-switch, or something.

You've decided to hold out until you talk them in to giving up. Have fun with that. Or not.

I've decided to do other things.

The only deficit is in you and those who are "amening" you posting scriptures to back what you are 'saying' is SO BIBLICAL. Now, who is going to be the first to offer some kind of scriptural response to show where the Bible says we are wrong? If we are so out of touch with the Bible, PLEASE show us with the Bible.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

The only deficit is in you and those who are "amening" you posting scriptures to back what you are 'saying' is SO BIBLICAL. Now, who is going to be the first to offer some kind of scriptural response to show where the Bible says we are wrong? If we are so out of touch with the Bible, PLEASE show us with the Bible.

You know I never really claimed anything was "sooooo biblical"...that's the problem here with talking at people and not just trying to reason with what people are saying. I have been saying is that there is no bible AGAINST self defense or coming to the aid of others who are being attacked. I never told anyone the bible teaches they HAVE to own a gun and shoot someone to defend themselves or keep their wife from being raped or their kids from being killed. That's your decision and if that is your conviction fine, but there is no bible that says you HAVE to do that or that you CAN'T try to keep someone else from dying or being raped by resorting to violence.

Those verses you guys keep posting only address retribution and we all agree that's wrong. Protecting someone is not retribution.

However as far as principles go yes I think the bible does present a principle of helping others because of love, agape and Jesus gave his own life to save others. The principle is in protecting and saving others. LIkewise as I tried to point out, murder is condemned, but because you guys intend on trying to force everyone else to dialog by your rules only and therefore ONLY use the NT, then we can't example the OT which defines murder.

That sort of attitude makes this discussion pointless. You want to have your cake and eat it too by telling others they can't use the old testament in this discussion, but what about other discussions like on Homosexuality? Would you be alright if we quoted the OT then?



I'm still waiting for the logic behind "you can't use the OT in this discussion but when we discuss x then you can use the OT because then we are on the same team"...this is why this discussion is pointless to continue.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

The only deficit is in you and those who are "amening" you posting scriptures to back what you are 'saying' is SO BIBLICAL. Now, who is going to be the first to offer some kind of scriptural response to show where the Bible says we are wrong? If we are so out of touch with the Bible, PLEASE show us with the Bible.

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

If you cannot see the difference between an isolated incident of armed assault, robbery, home intrusion, or rape, and systematic persecution of an ethnic or religious minority . . .

. . . then I cannot help you understand what I wrote earlier.

Similarly, if one cannot see the difference between defensive forceful intervention and retaliation, I cannot help them, either.

StMatthew makes a good point, however it doesn't have much application to the situation where the man of the house is physically challenged, or otherwise limited in his abilities to wrestle with an enraged or drug-hyped man.

But look at the progress you all have finally made last night! Some have finally understood Praxeas' point well enough to break it down for some etymology. At last, a reduction in the communication deficit!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Prax,

That is what I see in their arguments too. There is a serious deficit in communication, or a bait-and-switch, or something.

You've decided to hold out until you talk them in to giving up. Have fun with that. Or not.

I've decided to do other things.

Oh trust me I do lose interest, but I can't help seeing the humor in having someone try to taunt me by saying I ran away

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Oh trust me I do lose interest, but I can't help seeing the humor in having someone try to taunt me by saying I ran away

Running away is not a problem, it is when you can't stand, now that is a problem.