Pastors move to withhold/lessen SFC offerings in protest of NAYC

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

May I request someone to show me how anyone in Hazelwood, has biblical spiritual authority over another preacher, unless it's their own pastor who is in HQ? Organizational heirarchy does not equate to spiritual authority.

Can you show me how anyone "in Hazelwood" even exercises "spiritual authority over another preacher...?" All "authority over another preacher" exists at the District level, except where the General Conference votes in something like the Affirmation Statement. In that case the "spiritual authority" is whoever shows up at GC and votes. "Hazelwood" exists for purely administrative purposes, in so far as authority is concerned. Your statement seems to be attacking something that doesn't even exist.

A UPC minister can appeal some things from his/her district up through the Judicial Procedure - but that's not a case of Hazelwood dictating, rather a case where a lowly preacher is asking officials to intervene and mediate a situation on his/her behalf. And even then, those officials may not even have a WEC position. A friend of mine serves as a Regional JP guy- when he was elected to that position he held no other office than pastor of a local church. The authority that you seem to fear is really in the hands of thousands all across North America, not a select few in Hazelwood.

Originally Posted by BobDylan

Many of the people who get promoted to district and national offices, are not there because of their anointing, or their success in real God called ministry, but because of their administration and organizational abilities. I would even dare say that some of the people who are appointed and voted into district and national offices are done so simply because of who they are, who they know, or their political saavy.

Sounds like sour grapes to me. Did you loose a vote? I served on a national board and my Pentecostal pedigree is absolutely zilch. Most of the guys I served with failed to have the "proper" last names as well.

When I was hired to work at WEC I was selected over another applicant who was a close family member of one of the highest ranking officials. In fact, I may have gotten the job just so no one could cry "nepotism." How fair is that to the other guy? He felt a calling I'm sure. He probably would have done a better job then I did because he knew the culture better and had connections I could only dream of. But they chose me. He got dissed because of his name. But no hard feelings, we're friends to this day.

Originally Posted by BobDylan

Either way, my assertion still stands: "business administrators in Hazelwood" have no real biblical or spiritual authority over another God-called preacher who is doing the will and work of God.

And my assertion still stands. No "business administrators in Hazelwood" even attempt to exercise "real biblical or spiritual authority over another God-called preacher who is doing the will and work of God." Such entities simply don't exist in the real world. The only excepttion that even comes close is that the General Board approves and endorses the Foreign Missionaries. But those are the DS from across North America and not "business administrators in Hazelwood."

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by pelathais

When I was hired to work at WEC I was selected over another applicant who was a close family member of one of the highest ranking officials. In fact, I may have gotten the job just so no one could cry "nepotism." How fair is that to the other guy? He felt a calling I'm sure. He probably would have done a better job then I did because he knew the culture better and had connections I could only dream of. But they chose me. He got dissed because of his name. But no hard feelings, we're friends to this day.

Do you still have that same tie you wore every day?

Who took the job after you- the person you bumped?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Do you still have that same tie you wore every day?

Who took the job after you- the person you bumped?

WoW! LOL! OUCH!

Actually, as I remember I had a different tie for each day of the week back then, let me look at some old pics to see if there's any truth to what you say. Who took my place? I think "my place" was so unimportant that they didn't even bother to replace me. I must of been on staff only because I looked so good in that tie! I know you're messing with me there BOOMM ol' buddy. Still buddies, right?

"The person I bumped" has quite a story of his own to tell. Cool adventures from making his own way through the world; not by riding the coat tails of others, like BD was trying to allege about the scions of famous UPCers.

This whole thing just came to mind because it is the very antithesis of what many people gripe about. I was never important, but I was around important people. I paid attention. I saw what went on. The whole "daddy's boy" scenario may play out locally, but you won't get an office on Dunn Road unless you can convince several thousand tempermental and isolationist preachers that you can do the job; and then do the job in spite of every hinderance the aforementioned will throw in your way.

There were cases over the years when some one had their son as an assistant to work on seasonal and project related chores. That often made sense because you could the "downsize" your own after the next GC and not worry about it too much. But the "daddy's boy business administrators" who exercise the dreaded "spiritual control" from their lairs at WEC simply don't exist.

Anybody, go there. Fill out an app or run for an office at GC. Launch a campaign to "clean up" the UPC and you'll get a lot of attention because griping does that for you. But then after you've been there, come back and fill us all in about what you saw. I'm sure your story's going to be different.

So then, how come the 2/3 of every missionaries' budget that gets "swallowed up" by HQ never gets reported at GC? Go through the numbers. What comes in is broadcast all over the place and plaques are awarded for it. Follow the money. Show me the "missing 2/3." I say it's "missing" because it never materialized.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by pelathais

So then, how come the 2/3 of every missionaries' budget that gets "swallowed up" by HQ never gets reported at GC? Go through the numbers. What comes in is broadcast all over the place and plaques are awarded for it. Follow the money. Show me the "missing 2/3." I say it's "missing" because it never materialized.

I have seen reports that they raised $880000 of the pledges from last year's GC Marathons. If I remember they raised $2 Mil in pledges. The goal this year is SEVEN Hours ....err million in offerings.

If there are enough Pastors to really back up token offernings with a letter of protest over NAYC, it may have a punch, but as you observe above the money many times is simply not there.