Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven
Much of the confusion that some find themselves in comes from a misunderstanding of Jesus discourse with Nicodemas in John 3. I know that this has been debated at length but throughout John water is symbolic of the Spirit. |
I too hold this view ... Elder. Unfortunately, when my 3 step brethren see as much as a
puddle in the word of God .. they equate it to the biblical ordinance of water baptism.
Being born from above [
gennatha anothen], as found in John, is exactly that ... a work which rests entirely on the Holy Spirit through placing our trust in the Son of God.
Our warrior friend Adino said it best:
I understand the underlying Greek structure of
John 3:5 speaks of a single birth and not two. This single birth is one "of the Spirit." I believe the word "water" in the phrase "born of water" is a spiritual metaphor. By using this metaphor Christ places emphasis on the single new birth "of the Spirit." The author uses this same water/spirit metaphor in chapters 4 (v10-16) and 7 (v37-39). It makes sense we recognize the metaphorical use here.
If we also recognize the word "KAI" has more than one meaning, such as is shown in
1Corinthians 15:24 which states, "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, KAI (even) the Father," we can see that
John 3:5 is not offering two separate and distinct elements of a single birth but simply an emphasis on the single birth.
John 3:5 can be understood this way, "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water KAI (even) of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
"Born of water even of the Spirit" brings to mind a later usage of this same metaphor in
John 7:37-39 where it is, in fact, parenthetically explained that the metaphor "water" is a reference to the Spirit (vs39 But this spake he of the Spirit...).
That the remainder John chapter 3 jumps directly to further discussion on being born of the Spirit gives added strength to the metaphorical position.
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Jesus exhorts Nicodemus for not understanding him ... Jesus said: Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
He's saying ....Nicodemus should have known the scriptures that promised this New Birth ... and the washing of the Word -Christ incarnate - dwelling in us. Jesus is saying to him: I'VE PROMISED THIS THROUGH THE PROPHETS ... THAT THE NEXT COVENANT WOULD BE A CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART PERFORMED BY MY SPIRIT...
In Ezequiel 36 we read:
I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you;
I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
I wonder if the water ... is WATER baptism in Ezequiel ... it is NOT!!!!!!
Especially if it's sprinkled.
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Our sacramentalist brethren often then jump to
Titus 3:5 ... but isolate this verse not reading the verse in it's proper context and assuming washing must mean water baptism ...
One writer refutes this assertion by stating:
. [N]ot by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. . . (
Titus 3:5)
This verse is sometimes referred to as proof that baptism is the means of regeneration. However, it does not mention baptism, and our discussion of
Hebrews 10:22 will show that the regeneration, the cleansing of the evil conscience, is accomplished by washing, or sprinkling in the blood of Christ.
Revelation 1:5 makes it perfectly clear that the washing from sin is done in the blood of Christ, not in the waters of baptism.
Furthermore, there is good grammatical cause to believe that
"washing of regeneration" means "washing which
is regeneration." This is argued for by Charles Hodge, who notes that this would be the meaning as a "genitive of apposition," identifying
"washing" with
"regeneration." Thus Hodge writes, "We are saved by that washing which is regeneration, namely, the renewing of the Holy Ghost." [16]
Titus 3:5 does not actually refer to baptism in water. It refers to washing of regeneration which is done in the blood of Christ which was shed to cleanse us from sin. It cannot be used to prove that baptism in water is necessary for salvation.
Furthermore, even if baptism is not seen as a work of the law, it is a work of righteousness. It is something which we do: therefore it is a work. It is right for us to do: therefore it is a work of righteousness. But this very verse says that it is not by any works of righteousness which we have done that we are saved. Therefore it cannot be by baptism that we are saved [
http://www.rickross.com/reference/icc/ICC122.html#titus3]
I would also simply point out the the surrounding 2 verses 4 and 6 in Titus.
4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us,
not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6
whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
The washing and renewal of the Holy Spirit is and simultaneous work ... not sequential ... as evident in verse 6 that states "
He poured out on us" ... this is the pouring out promised by the prophet Joel, reaffirmed by John the Baptist [I baptize you w/ water, but he will baptize you w/ the Holy Ghost] and Jesus who offers us living water:
Everyone who drinks this ... rivers of living water will flow from within him.
It is mind boggling to hear posters on this board deny those who are filled w/ the Spirit of God ... access to heaven's gate .... or fellowship in the Body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:13 states, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
My bible is clear ... if they show fruit of the Spirit .... THEY ARE HIS AND BORN OF GOD.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
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