KH believes the Light Doctrine??

[Light]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Light, I'm sure that you're really a swell person to be around in person and that your antagonism isn't intended to be as rough as it comes across.

I'm curious though; I was raised in the "Water and Spirit" camp and preached it that way for decades. Finally, at one point someone graciously asked me to really break down John 3 and show them how the statement "born of the water" was intended to mean water baptism. I was stuck. I couldn't. I hadn't honestly looked at the passage with the carefulness that I should have. There are so many things that consume our time and study hours that we just take so many other things for granted. And I was guilty of that with John 3:5.

I still believe in the importance of Jesus name baptism (in water, by immersion) and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. But I can no longer honestly say that John 3:5 is a verse that contains the "whole package."

What amazes me is the way some still will fight tooth and nail for seeing water baptism in John 3:5. It seems that they are clinging more to the traditions of men and not doing the real work that I was finally forced to do. Without sending me to hell, calling me "swine" or a "false brother," can you show me how John 3:5 gives the absolute and unequivical command to be water baptized that you insist it does? Give me some "light" here. Thanks in advance.

Yes the words are harsh but they are not my words, they are the words of Jesus. Jesus also said in the same chapter beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Anyone that has know the truth and then goes back on it are in that category. Heb:6:4 says it is impossible for someone that has tasted this wonderful truth and then falls away to find repentance. (fall away is not backsliding, but going back on truth)

As Jesus prayed to the father he said I have given them (apostles) your word ,your word are truth and they have received them. I pray not for the world but I pray for them (apostles) and those that will believe on me through their words. The first words out of Peters mouth when the people ask what shall we do was repentance, water and spirit. The water was not the Spirit and the Spirit was not the water but two different actions. The only way to salvation is through water and Spirit just as Jesus said in John 3. When Cornelius received the Holy Ghost immediately Peter baptized him. Water and Spirit. There wasn’t a man that was more repented that Cornelius yet he was not saved. The angel told Cornelius call for Peter (Acts 11:14) Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Paul met with men who believed in Jesus yet they were lost. Paul ask them if they had the Spirit. They said they never heard of the Spirit. Paul ask “HOW WERE YOU BAPTISED” Paul baptized them (water) then they received the Spirit.

To say that Jesus didn't actualy mean water baptism in John 3 means that the apostles realy didn't understand the words that Jesus told them.
Romans through Rev. is written to the church and not to sinners. The words written in these books were written to people that had already obeyed Acts 2:38. To use verses from these book to try to prove your point is folly.