MARK JOHNSTON DROPS THE BOMB....The Aftermath

[SoCaliUPC]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

After many years of lack of depth in GC messages, you are correct. This was Dead On and really good.

Actually BOOMM, if I can further that comment....all of the messages this year were really good and dead-on. I was very impressed (for lack of a better word) at the relevance and content of what was coming forward.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

After many years of lack of depth in GC messages, you are correct. This was Dead On and really good.

Remember KC's sermon at GC back in... I have no idea what year? He preached on the subject of "God's Time Pieces." He pointed out that Jesus always said, "As it was in the days of Noah..." and so forth. He never said, "As it was 2000 BC" (or whatever). God marked time by the men who lived in that time. That's how important His people are to Him.

My only point here: That was the best GC sermon ever. First of all, because it was a sermon and not just some guy rambling about everything he'd ever heard since Bible School. The whole message was under 45 minutes- and powerful. My vote for Best GC Sermon.

What do we give the guy? Like a Grammy or Oscar?

[chseeads]

Originally Posted by pelathais

My only point here: That was the best GC sermon ever. First of all, because it was a sermon and not just some guy rambling about everything he'd ever heard since Bible School. The whole message was under 45 minutes- and powerful. My vote for Best GC Sermon.

What do we give the guy? Like a Grammy or Oscar?

An Emmy since the resolution passed....

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by SoCaliUPC

Actually BOOMM, if I can further that comment....all of the messages this year were really good and dead-on. I was very impressed (for lack of a better word) at the relevance and content of what was coming forward.

I have not had time to listen to them all.
Thanks for the reminder to do so.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by chseeads

An Emmy since the resolution passed....

LOL.

[drummerboy_dave]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I don't think they're criticizing the message itself, just the fact that such a message was needed.

Given the human condition I think you will need "milk" type messages continually. Perhaps the criticism should be "why the milk?" But rather "why milk all the time, and seldom any meat?"

I got fired from a church because I came to be known as a "Bible Teacher" and for my "meaty" messages. People clamored the pastor to have me preach more and he took it personally - so I had to go. He preached for months after that about how the congregation wasn't ready for meat and complained that they still needed milk. Of course, if he was right- the church's shabby condition was his own fault.

Your historical circumstances aside, Pelathais, I think men would be wise to understand that God feeds His church exactly what they need, when they need it. Rather than criticizing and asking extraneous questions, they should gratefully recieve the word of the Lord in the spirit it was given; to admonish and bring them up to a higher level in God.

As has been duly noted already, the human heart is continually evil and constantly needs to be reminded of basic things, but furthermore, I believe that when God is satisfied with our behavior then He can change the message to address the next task He wants us to complete.

Oddly or not so oddly, knowing how God works, but I was 2000 miles away from GC and heard a very similiar message this Sunday by a completely different man. Praise the Lord!

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So the message was meant the preachers that have been in the UPC 60+ years???

Use discretion, Prax...learn how to form conclusions based on inference. Don't rely on everything being spelled out for you and being taken by the hand.

...60 years of foundation and yet there is still a need for admonishing the LEADERSHIP in these elementary matters....after 60 yrs of building leaders, surely this should not be a group problem...the fact that it was preached to the group makes it evident that at this stage in its life this problem persists.


How many years should a child be in the 1st grade?

Clue: about 1.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by SoCaliUPC

J-Roc....its effectiveness will be determined at the choice some ministers will take....do they want to be heroes to their community and churches or celebrities within their organization? The actions will speak of those who choose whatever route they choose.

As someone who was there in the building when this message was delivered...there was a heaviness in the air. Just the response at the end put many into conviction.

I'm glad over the response and am hoping for lasting change.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave

Your historical circumstances aside, Pelathais, I think men would be wise to understand that God feeds His church exactly what they need, when they need it. Rather than criticizing and asking extraneous questions, they should gratefully recieve the word of the Lord in the spirit it was given; to admonish and bring them up to a higher level in God.
As has been duly noted already, the human heart is continually evil and constantly needs to be reminded of basic things, but furthermore, I believe that when God is satisfied with our behavior then He can change the message to address the next task He wants us to complete.

Oddly or not so oddly, knowing how God works, but I was 2000 miles away from GC and heard a very similiar message this Sunday by a completely different man. Praise the Lord!

At this stage of the game, LEADERS as a whole should not be dealing with this chronic problem. If the LEADERSHIP is in this infantile stage of development.....oy vey!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Use discretion, Prax...learn how to form conclusions based on inference. Don't rely on everything being spelled out for you and being taken by the hand.

...60 years of foundation and yet there is still a need for admonishing the LEADERSHIP in these elementary matters....after 60 yrs of building leaders, surely this should not be a group problem...the fact that it was preached to the group makes it evident that at this stage in its life this problem persists.


How many years should a child be in the 1st grade?

Clue: about 1.

He was not preaching to the foundation. He was preaching to MEN. How long an organization has been around is irrelevant. Paul admonished already settled churches. The Holy Spirit did too in Revelation. We have men that have not been around since the founding. Nor does the years of a foundation for an org ensures the leaders, or the general population, is going to have already arrived and be perfected and not need to reminded. Pro Football teams have years of foundation but still wisely remind themselves of the basic principles of the game, particularly if some are getting rusty. That does not mean everyone needed to hear that message either. There is no evidence the men this was aimed at have alwasy been that way.