MARK JOHNSTON DROPS THE BOMB....The Aftermath

[Neck]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Still pondering the message given by Mark Johnston on Saturday night at GC Tampa and I can’t help wonder about all of this…

Here we have an organization that is over 60 years old and God speaks to the constituency through this man of God:

An the underlying message is:

1- You are seeking the best seats at GC in order to be noticed…

2- Stop seeking celebrity status (your attitude is wrong and focus is misplaced)

3- You care too much about your image and the cars you are driving in

In summary, you are carnal-minded.

After 60 years should this type of message still be preached? Is this reflective of its spiritual maturity? After 60 yrs, it still needs to be fed milk as babes and be told to grow up spiritually? After 60 yrs, shouldn’t meat be on its plates…but no, instead, God speaks to the constituency through the mouth of this preacher telling it to grow up.

Does this turn on the light bulb for anyone? What is this? Why is it necessary to be hearing this type of message if it is not reflective of a poor state?


Just wondering….

What is humility not being able to pay your bills?

That is not humility it's humiliating!

I bet he felt pretty good himself being in the pulpit!

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Typical OP sackcloth and ashes preaching, that has been the stable for 60 years. It is easier to rant and rave at the saints than it is to set a true definitive vision. That is one reason I left the OP fellowship, no true direction, no continuing training or practical training just continual general rant and rave about how no one is doing anything right. It fills the alters with the saints but leaves them empty, general shotgun preaching that produces absolutely nothing. JMHO

How about a systematic teaching that has some real goals of discipleship, where after a few years the pew actually matures into full grown image of Jesus. This rant and raving raises the emotions but afterward leaves the hearers worse off than before.

To listen to this kind of preaching that I guess was directed at the ministry, you would think they were a bunch of heathen and reprobates!

This is what baffles me...how can anyone be thinking "we need to hear this kind of stuff every now and then" without being ashamed about the condition that is being dealt with...


....it just paints a superficial picture for me....where is the depth? where is the systematic teachings you speak of? instead, the ministry receives a tongue-lashing for the state-of-the-union (I am not questioning the necessity of the message...evidently, it was needed. Rather, I'm questioning the maturity of the group that had to hear this elementary teaching after 60 years)....this is an embarrassing and shameful condition.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

This is what baffles me...how can anyone be thinking "we need to hear this kind of stuff every now and then" without being ashamed about the condition that is being dealt with...


....it just paints a superficial picture for me....where is the depth? where is the systematic teachings you speak of? instead, the ministry receives a tongue-lashing for the state-of-the-union (I am not questioning the necessity of the message...evidently, it was needed. Rather, I'm questioning the maturity of the group that had to hear this elementary teaching after 60 years)....this is an embarrassing and shameful condition.

I agree with you, it is shallow and it produces nothing but frustration in the hearers. The OP fellowship is in serious need of some systematic and expository preaching. The Word of God preached in a systematic and expository manner is meat and it will build the Body, this type preaching that you describe is junk preaching and is ineffective. Correction: it is very effective in demoralizing and frustrating the hearers.

[drummerboy_dave]

I wasn't there and am not UPC. Having just heard the message online, I thought it was very, very good. Provoking and inspiring. A call to put the ministry's focus back on lost souls instead of building an image. If you guys don't want to answer the call then don't. But don't embarass yourselves by trying to poke holes in that message. It was dead on.

[chseeads]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

But this message was aimed at ministers, those in leadership roles not the church...and they (leaders) should not be having these kind of problems as a whole, as a group. God put this on his heart to speak because of something he must be observing as a problem within the leadership, no? After 60 years, should leadership be dealing with this immature problem?


Hebrews 5 said it best: "We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness."

Even if aimed at ministers, they still make up the church. Jesus' messages to the churches in Revelation said "To the angel of the church of ________".....

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

This is what baffles me...how can anyone be thinking "we need to hear this kind of stuff every now and then" without being ashamed about the condition that is being dealt with...


....it just paints a superficial picture for me....where is the depth? where is the systematic teachings you speak of? instead, the ministry receives a tongue-lashing for the state-of-the-union (I am not questioning the necessity of the message...evidently, it was needed. Rather, I'm questioning the maturity of the group that had to hear this elementary teaching after 60 years)....this is an embarrassing and shameful condition.

So the message was meant the preachers that have been in the UPC 60+ years???

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave

I wasn't there and am not UPC. Having just heard the message online, I thought it was very, very good. Provoking and inspiring. A call to put the ministry's focus back on lost souls instead of building an image. If you guys don't want to answer the call then don't. But don't embarass yourselves by trying to poke holes in that message. It was dead on.

After many years of lack of depth in GC messages, you are correct. This was Dead On and really good.

[SoCaliUPC]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Well, that's a positive response. I wonder how effective this all is in creating lasting change. Or is it business as usual after the tears dry up?

J-Roc....its effectiveness will be determined at the choice some ministers will take....do they want to be heroes to their community and churches or celebrities within their organization? The actions will speak of those who choose whatever route they choose.

As someone who was there in the building when this message was delivered...there was a heaviness in the air. Just the response at the end put many into conviction.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave

I wasn't there and am not UPC. Having just heard the message online, I thought it was very, very good. Provoking and inspiring. A call to put the ministry's focus back on lost souls instead of building an image. If you guys don't want to answer the call then don't. But don't embarass yourselves by trying to poke holes in that message. It was dead on.

I don't think they're criticizing the message itself, just the fact that such a message was needed.

Given the human condition I think you will need "milk" type messages continually. Perhaps the criticism should be "why the milk?" But rather "why milk all the time, and seldom any meat?"

I got fired from a church because I came to be known as a "Bible Teacher" and for my "meaty" messages. People clamored the pastor to have me preach more and he took it personally - so I had to go. He preached for months after that about how the congregation wasn't ready for meat and complained that they still needed milk. Of course, if he was right- the church's shabby condition was his own fault.

[SoCaliUPC]

Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave

I wasn't there and am not UPC. Having just heard the message online, I thought it was very, very good. Provoking and inspiring. A call to put the ministry's focus back on lost souls instead of building an image. If you guys don't want to answer the call then don't. But don't embarass yourselves by trying to poke holes in that message. It was dead on.

Absolutely!