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View Poll Results: Adino's statement (in post #1) expresses my understanding concerning water baptism:
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Yes
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30.61% |
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No
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34 |
69.39% |
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10-03-2007, 01:14 PM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
Anything that is a command is salvational. That is, if you believe disobedience is sin and and all. Hopefully you haven't changed your mind on that as well?
Further, the question as to when the blood is applied is not the issue here. The real issue IS obedience to the Apostolic commands given by Peter, witnessed (and not objected to) by the other Apostles, and confirmed by Holy Ghost outpouring.
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The real issue is the presentation - as to what our obedience signifies ... PP...
No one has ever argued the proper response to the Gospel ... we are examining what each step means.
Some feel tcertain aspects of their obedience causes the New Birth ... while others believe it is a result of the NB.
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10-03-2007, 01:26 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 8,102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
Anything that is a command is salvational. That is, if you believe disobedience is sin and and all. Hopefully you haven't changed your mind on that as well?
Further, the question as to when the blood is applied is not the issue here. The real issue IS obedience to the Apostolic commands given by Peter, witnessed (and not objected to) by the other Apostles, and confirmed by Holy Ghost outpouring.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
The real issue is the presentation - as to what our obedience signifies ... PP...
No one has ever argued the proper response to the Gospel ... we are examining what each step means.
Some feel their obedience causes the New Birth ... while others believe it is a result of the NB.
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The trouble is, that is not the way you have framed the discussion. You have never stated the proper response is found in Acts 2:38 (to my knowledge). Instead, you choose to push a full response that is limited to repentance.
BTW, I have a little bit of a problem with your continued labeling of myself and others as three-steppers. There are truly only two steps a new believer makes - repentance and baptism. Obedience to those two commands is our responsibility. The outpouring of the Spirit is GOD's responsibility.
I cannot stress enough that the message of Pentecost is an imperative, not a request. The men asked "what shall we do?" Peter responded "repent and be baptized' and then added FOR the remission of sins.
Key word is for.
There is no remission without repentance and baptism.
Period.
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10-03-2007, 01:37 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Flower Mound, Tx
Posts: 2,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
The trouble is, that is not the way you have framed the discussion. You have never stated the proper response is found in Acts 2:38 (to my knowledge). Instead, you choose to push a full response that is limited to repentance.
BTW, I have a little bit of a problem with your continued labeling of myself and others as three-steppers. There are truly only two steps a new believer makes - repentance and baptism. Obedience to those two commands is our responsibility. The outpouring of the Spirit is GOD's responsibility.
Period. |
What about these folks who have a hard time receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost? Was God just waiting around until they prayed hard enough to be able to receive his gift?????? The baptism of the Holy Ghost is a free gift and it is up to US to receive it. I have always thought that his spirit will fill a willing person. Therefore, it is a step for us.
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10-03-2007, 01:39 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 8,102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaguitar
What about these folks who have a hard time receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost? Was God just waiting around until they prayed hard enough to be able to receive his gift?????? The baptism of the Holy Ghost is a free gift and it is up to US to receive it. I have always thought that his spirit will fill a willing person. Therefore, it is a step for us.
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The gift is not a step for us. How can we MAKE God's Spirit do anything?
No, the gift is a promise, otherwise God is a liar.
A big problem nowadays is a lack of real conviction and repentance.
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10-03-2007, 01:50 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Flower Mound, Tx
Posts: 2,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
The gift is not a step for us. How can we MAKE God's Spirit do anything?
No, the gift is a promise, otherwise God is a liar.
A big problem nowadays is a lack of real conviction and repentance.
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I don't know. I guess [B]receiving the holy ghost[B] would be our step. I mean I remember working my you know what off to get the holy ghost and if that ain't a step I don't know what is. It was a lot easier to get dunked under for two seconds.
Also, how do we really know who has real conviction and real repentance or who has really received the holy ghost? We all see people who get the holy ghost but don't seem to live for God after the initial infilling. It seems like somewhere in the bible it says you would know them that have the holy spirit by the works that they do.
Maybe a real way to know if someone is saved is by their change., i.e. repentance.
:sshhh
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10-03-2007, 03:37 PM
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His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
You have never stated the proper response is found in Acts 2:38 (to my knowledge). |
PP, you get the benefit of the doubt of not seeing him state it...so here is your proof.
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...nse#post248371
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10-03-2007, 03:42 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: "New" Mexico
Posts: 977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encryptus
So it is a three step position that one who repented and was filled with HG, lived in Arizona and died before made it to the lake to be baptized is lost without hope?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encryptus
If baptism "washes away sin", how does one get the HG before sins are remitted?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encryptus
So the three steppers believe Cornelius was a mistake or that he faked it so well that Peter was confused?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encryptus
So Cornelius did really recieve the HG BEFORE being baptised? BUT how is that possible?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encryptus
And the question that was avoided earlier? If Joe get HG, speaks in tongues, after sincerely repenting, but dies before making it to church to "be Buried" and "have sins washed away", he is doomed to hell.
God Who knows the future and that he would not make it to the church to be baptised, just filled him for a teaser?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encryptus
And if Cornelius or someone in the household had died before the water got there?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encryptus
Those who would say this, basically that Cornelius got the HG on credit? So once having recieved it, his free will was destroyed and he could not change his mind about later being baptised?
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Interesting none of the outcome scenarios of actually applying the "3 step" doctrine were addressed, starting to think one of the three steps is the side step.
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10-03-2007, 04:47 PM
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uncharismatic conservative maverick
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encryptus
Interesting none of the outcome scenarios of actually applying the "3 step" doctrine were addressed, starting to think one of the three steps is the side step.
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You have yet to provide your support for your argument. I wonder why you think that anyone would want to exchange ideas w/you.
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10-03-2007, 04:52 PM
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uncharismatic conservative maverick
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Griffin
Once again a side step!!!!
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A side step? I have to argue that Peter was right? blah, blah,blah.
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10-03-2007, 03:49 PM
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His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
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