Growing Up Mennonite

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Outside of the normal difficulties of someone leaving a families traditional faith, the Mennonites would treat errant ones as any other person in eating and business etc. They would likely treat an errant one very well unless he was seen as causing dissent.

Okay, I was just wondering because I think the "being frowned upon" would be very similar to the UPC way of handling "errant" people. They are going to eat with you and all and people who are true friends are still going to love you but there are many who might declare you bitter and rebellious with self-righteous indignation. I have experienced the disapproval of loved ones without religion in the mix and it feels differently than that. I think it is much better and speaks for itself. So, I guess in my mind now I see three tier levels. 1. Amish shunning 2. Self-righteous church people looking down their nose and 3. People who really love you and do not judge but just wish you had chosen differently.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by ILG

Okay, I was just wondering because I think the "being frowned upon" would be very similar to the UPC way of handling "errant" people. They are going to eat with you and all and people who are true friends are still going to love you but there are many who might declare you bitter and rebellious with self-righteous indignation. I have experienced the disapproval of loved ones without religion in the mix and it feels differently than that. I think it is much better and speaks for itself. So, I guess in my mind now I see three tier levels. 1. Amish shunning 2. Self-righteous church people looking down their nose and 3. People who really love you and do not judge but just wish you had chosen differently.

I would say you pegged it exactly. I may have a few of the #2's but mostly my family and extended family is in the third catagory.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

I would say you pegged it exactly. I may have a few of the #2's but mostly my family and extended family is in the third catagory.

Which is why you can say you loved your upbringing and look back with some admiration, I think. If they were all angry and resentful towards you or treated you like you were dead, it would probably be a different story. I think that's one reason I have been so angry with my UPC experience. Not only was it an awful experience pretty much start to finish, and not only did we give more than we even had emotionally, financially and otherwise but when we walked out the door very, very few even noticed or cared. I have no intention of ever going back. My husband can't prove this....but he thinks the cancer he is experiencing now is caused by the stress we lived through in the UPC. I have a tendency to agree. The whole thing grieves me. It's just a part of my life I will put in a box and chalk it up to experience.

My mother looks at her strict Catholic upbringing much the same way you look at your OOM upbringing. She is still Catholic and greatly respects the faith of her parents. Since my Dad never went to church it was not the same for me.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by ILG

Which is why you can say you loved your upbringing and look back with some admiration, I think. If they were all angry and resentful towards you or treated you like you were dead, it would probably be a different story. I think that's one reason I have been so angry with my UPC experience. Not only was it an awful experience pretty much start to finish, and not only did we give more than we even had emotionally, financially and otherwise but when we walked out the door very, very few even noticed or cared. I have no intention of ever going back. My husband can't prove this....but he thinks the cancer he is experiencing now is caused by the stress we lived through in the UPC. I have a tendency to agree. The whole thing grieves me. It's just a part of my life I will put in a box and chalk it up to experience.

My mother looks at her strict Cahtolic upbringin much the same way you look at your OOM upbringing. She is still Catholic and greatly respects the faith of her parents. Since my Dad never went to church it was not the same for me.

ILG, I am so sorry. I notice, and have no reason to doubt you in this at all. My heart goes out to you.

Please listen, I cannot see any benefit in making such connections concerning your husbands health. Such things are in God's hands, and he remained in control even while your were mistreated. Please give it all to the Lord, and rest in his ability to replace the bitter cup with sweet. I fear you are still allowing effects to continue even though you removed yourself from the source of your anxiety.

I will pray for you.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

ILG, I am so sorry. I notice, and have no reason to doubt you in this at all. My heart goes out to you.

Please listen, I cannot see any benefit in making such connections concerning your husbands health. Such things are in God's hands, and he remained in control even while your were mistreated. Please give it all to the Lord, and rest in his ability to replace the bitter cup with sweet. I fear you are still allowing effects to continue even though you removed yourself from the source of your anxiety.

I will pray for you.

Thanks. I know that I have to let it go. But I also have to face it all and work through some feelings. I can't get over 19 UPC years (the totality of my adult life) in 2. I don't know if there is any validity to those connections. I just know that it might be true and then it might not. I don't think there is wrong in mentioning it. Nothing can be proven one way or another anyway but people do try and link cause and effect and that is only normal and should be done to some extent. At any rate, it would be easier to assume that it was NOT that if there wasn't such stress for so long. But I do appreciate your prayers and the conversation anyway. I am going to go take a bath with my Amish fiction book. (Plain and Fancy by Wanda Brunstetter) Talk to you later.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by ILG

Thanks. I know that I have to let it go. But I also have to face it all and work through some feelings. I can't get over 19 UPC years (the totality of my adult life) in 2. I don't know if there is any validity to those connections. I just know that it might be true and then it might not. I don't think there is wrong in mentioning it. Nothing can be proven one way or another anyway but people do try and link cause and effect and that is only normal and should be done to some extent. At any rate, it would be easier to assume that it was NOT that if there wasn't such stress for so long. But I do appreciate your prayers and the conversation anyway. I am going to go take a bath with my Amish fiction book. (Plain and Fancy by Wanda Brunstetter) Talk to you later.

ILG, Please know I am not saying you should not bear your feelings here. I just cannot see any possible good in entertaining such ideas. I enjoy visiting...

May God bless you and your husband supremely and hold you in His perfect will.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

ILG, Please know I am not saying you should not bear your feelings here. I just cannot see any possible good in entertaining such ideas. I enjoy visiting...

May God bless you and your husband supremely and hold you in His perfect will.

Actually, I appreciate you bearing your feelings here. It helps me know better how to pray for you

Stephen, you are a good listener. Thanks for being a tool in the hands of God.

And ILG, thanks for sharing. I'm really enjoying reading this conversation.

I just finished reading a book about a man who left the OOM that you would enjoy. It's called "Tobias of the Amish" by Ervin R. Stutzman. Ervin is writing in this book about his own father who died when he was just a small child in a car accident.

[Margies3]

Steve and ILG,

I might be wrong, but I'm guessing that in the OOM and the Amish people there are friends/families who are full of the love of God and would treat those who leave in the way that Steve has been treated by his family. They love him. They wish he had made different choices but there love is not diminished because they don't agree with his choices. And they are still willing to fellowship with him.

On the other hand, there are probably other OOM and Amish people who would reject someone who had left the fold. Write them off completely. Family or no family - they just cut them off.

That all boils down to differences in people and differences in where people are in their walk with the Lord.

I think that is much the same when someone leaves the UPC. In my experience, I had one friend who took the shunning route with me. All of my other friends have remained friends. And of those, there are some who are sure I am doomed for eternity. And there are others who believe I am saved as I was when I was UPC.

I guess what I'm saying is that maybe some of it boils down to personality types???? Do you agree?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Margies3

Steve and ILG,

I might be wrong, but I'm guessing that in the OOM and the Amish people there are friends/families who are full of the love of God and would treat those who leave in the way that Steve has been treated by his family. They love him. They wish he had made different choices but there love is not diminished because they don't agree with his choices. And they are still willing to fellowship with him.

On the other hand, there are probably other OOM and Amish people who would reject someone who had left the fold. Write them off completely. Family or no family - they just cut them off.

That all boils down to differences in people and differences in where people are in their walk with the Lord.

I think that is much the same when someone leaves the UPC. In my experience, I had one friend who took the shunning route with me. All of my other friends have remained friends. And of those, there are some who are sure I am doomed for eternity. And there are others who believe I am saved as I was when I was UPC.

I guess what I'm saying is that maybe some of it boils down to personality types???? Do you agree?

Yes, I think that is very true and colors each of our experiences with organizations, whatever they may be. It is the people and their choices that makes organizations what they are.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by ILG

Yes, I think that is very true and colors each of our experiences with organizations, whatever they may be. It is the people and their choices that makes organizations what they are.

ILG,
I wanted to read your website listed at the bottom of your sig line, but it won't open up. ???