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11-03-2007, 07:18 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
I think you just missed it. Being excommunicated means you are not in right standing with the church and the ordinances you promised to uphold when you joined.
For the Amish the "ban" or "Shunning" is what follows after the excommunication. Once fellow members will cease doing business, eating, and for most practical purposes communicating with the errant one. In some cases the shunning is extended to the marriage bed.... no wonder it works so well for them!
The Old Order Amish do not offically practice the ban, or shunning.
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You mean Mennonite?
Anyway, I did read that in the books and I understand the history of the Anabaptist split concerning it. However, in actual practice, I don't understand the difference. Do the Mennonites still eat with the errant one in order to not appear "Amish" (or simply because it is what is done)?
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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11-03-2007, 07:18 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
Pouring is the prefered method and some do pour three times (about a spoonful) in rapid succession while the minister proclaims the authority of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. However, immersion is acceptable, and I know of some cases where it was requested and granted.
I don't know that any Old Orders allow the internet, and most do not allow the computer....
BUT!!!! They do have telephone chat lines that operate very much like this very forum, and are run by moderaters complete with threads, news, even some "gossip", AND banning by way of blocking phone numbers. YES I have the pin numbers and NO I ain't sharing them!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
There are 160 "online" right now!  |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margies3
I must have missed something. Where are you finding these people "online"? Is there a url for it?
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See the bolded part.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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11-03-2007, 07:19 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
You mean Mennonite?
Anyway, I did read that in the books and I understand the history of the Anabaptist split concerning it. However, in actual practice, I don't understand the difference. Do the Mennonites still eat with the errant one in order to not appear "Amish" (or simply because it is what is done)?
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yes Old Order Mennonite I'll change it.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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11-03-2007, 07:22 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
I understood him to mean all. though he did not say it. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt - seeing that his motives appear good.
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Well....to me, that's like saying that in general, Mormons do not get "saved" and being Mormon is more about religion than about God and that they disapprove of "getting saved". The Amish do not appreciate their members "getting saved" and interpreting the Bible for themselves, right? I think the Amish religion itself is more about religion than God. But that doesn't mean that there are not Amish people who are saved.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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11-03-2007, 07:23 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
You mean Mennonite?
Anyway, I did read that in the books and I understand the history of the Anabaptist split concerning it. However, in actual practice, I don't understand the difference. Do the Mennonites still eat with the errant one in order to not appear "Amish" (or simply because it is what is done)?
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Outside of the normal difficulties of someone leaving a families traditional faith, the Mennonites would treat errant ones as any other person in eating and business etc. They would likely treat an errant one very well unless he was seen as causing dissent.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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11-03-2007, 07:24 PM
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Christmas 2009
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Jackson, TN
Posts: 9,788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
Pouring is the prefered method and some do pour three times (about a spoonful) in rapid succession while the minister proclaims the authority of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. However, immersion is acceptable, and I know of some cases where it was requested and granted.
I don't know that any Old Orders allow the internet, and most do not allow the computer....
BUT!!!! They do have telephone chat lines that operate very much like this very forum, and are run by moderaters complete with threads, news, even some "gossip", AND banning by way of blocking phone numbers. YES I have the pin numbers and NO I ain't sharing them!
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For some reason, this just struck me as hilarious! Telephone forums!!! That's great. 
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11-03-2007, 07:29 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
Outside of the normal difficulties of someone leaving a families traditional faith, the Mennonites would treat errant ones as any other person in eating and business etc. They would likely treat an errant one very well unless he was seen as causing dissent.
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Okay, I was just wondering because I think the "being frowned upon" would be very similar to the UPC way of handling "errant" people. They are going to eat with you and all and people who are true friends are still going to love you but there are many who might declare you bitter and rebellious with self-righteous indignation.  I have experienced the disapproval of loved ones without religion in the mix and it feels differently than that. I think it is much better and speaks for itself. So, I guess in my mind now I see three tier levels. 1. Amish shunning 2. Self-righteous church people looking down their nose and 3. People who really love you and do not judge but just wish you had chosen differently.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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11-03-2007, 07:31 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
See the bolded part.
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Gotcha! Thanks for unraveling this mystery for me
By the way, we have a missionary at our church this weekend from Mali, West Africa. We took her to dinner tonight. Guess where she requested to go? Yep, Don Pablo I can't go there anymore without thinking about our delightful dinner with you and your family. What a nice time!!
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11-03-2007, 07:32 PM
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Do they speak Pennsylvania Dutch so as to separate themselves from regular society?
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11-03-2007, 07:35 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
Well....to me, that's like saying that in general, Mormons do not get "saved" and being Mormon is more about religion than about God and that they disapprove of "getting saved". The Amish do not appreciate their members "getting saved" and interpreting the Bible for themselves, right? I think the Amish religion itself is more about religion than God. But that doesn't mean that there are not Amish people who are saved.
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I am not at all comfortable with such an analogy.
A much better comparision to the Amish/Mennonites would be to the non-"Born Again" Christians such as the Lutherans Episcapalians, or Reformed groups.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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