Your Turn: "Mistakes Backsliders Make"

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Surely this is one that is vitally important:

"It's A Mistake To Be So Deceived You Don't Know You Are Backslidden."

After being in full time ministry for 27 years I can attest to two heartbreaking facts:

1) The carnal nature in people can justify any sin they want to commit if they want it bad enough.

2) Once they start trying to justify it even the Word of God isn't enough to convince them they are wrong.

The end result is a backslidden person who refuses to believe they are anything less than 'saved'.

In your opinion, which is worse?

A person who doesn't know they are backslidden? Or a person who accepts that they are, and in fact believes that they are better off because of it?

I suppose a lot would depend on your definition of backslidden of course...

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Michlow

You said alot, but this was the part I wanted to focus on.

You said "God is good, even if his followers are not..."

Question: Who says God is good?

Answer: His followers.

God has never spoken to me from heaven to assure me of his goodness. Nope, the only places I have heard this said were from his followers, and from the Bible (a book of writings, written by his followers).

So can you see the irony of what you are telling me? Believe that God is good, because his followers say so, even though their behavior shows otherwise.

Of course, I must say that in my experience, his followers are much more likely to say that God is judgemental, harsh, exacting, arbitrary and capricious then they are to say that he is good.

Of course His followers says He is good. Why because they KNOW Him! IF YOU knew HIM and stop focusing on people you would also say He is good, ALL the time!

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Michlow

It's not unhappiness that you hear as much as it was blunt sarcasm. Since I left the apostolic church, I have lost my ability to understand the mindset that is prevelent there. I don't mean to sound so rude and mocking as I come off, but it all kind of sounds ludicrius to me now.

You have been deceived by the deceiver and you don't even realize it. You are in a very sad situation.

Many reading that are probably wondering why in the world I bother to come around then, and the truth is, I am still trying to deconstruct my entire experience in the UPC

Was there nothing good about your experience or do you just choose to focus on the negative?

I wouldn't say that I hate the church, and I definately don't hate individuals, but as a whole my experience with the apostolic church (which is really the only experience I ever had with god or christianity) was horrible. And I try to figure out what made me join in the first place, or why I stayed so long.

What was so horrible about your experience?

As to whether or not I am happy. Of course I'm not "happy". I am still way too messed up to be considered happy. I was giving a messed up distrorted view of God and Christianity, and have been to somehow piece together the real Jesus from millions of puzzle pieces. Except for 99% of the puzzle pieces belong to a different puzzle, and only 1% are real. Oh, and I can't use my hands, my ears or my eyes to try and differentiate between them.

Mich did you read the Bible for yourself at all? How could you get so messed up IF you read the Bible? Not trying to condemn you but trying to figure this out???

That's kind of what I feel like, LOL

So no, this is not a place of happiness. But I wouldn't trade this journey for anything, because If I believe anything, its that one day I will end up with something real, and strong, and good.

Mich I truly hope you to find your journey to truth and happiness.

[Michlow]

You have been deceived by the deceiver and you don't even realize it. You are in a very sad situation.

If someone who is truly and sincerely wanting to find truth can be so easily decieved, doesn't that imply that the deception is then stronger than truth?

Was there nothing good about your experience or do you just choose to focus on the negative? What was so horrible about your experience?

I'm not entirely sure. Yes, I am focusing on the negative, as I am trying to recover and piece together something good out of the wreckage. As for what was so horrible, I could try to explain, but I don't think that it would serve any purpose. As numerous spiritual abuse threads on this forum have shown, those who have not experienced tend to think one should simply "get over it and move on", those who have been through it understand that it is not that simplistic.

I do however have 3 close friends, 2 males, and 1 female, who have been through similar experiences. They are the people I can discuss my experiences with, who can truly understand the difficulty of recovery.

Originally Posted by Esther

Mich I truly hope you to find your journey to truth and happiness.

Thank you.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Michlow

If someone who is truly and sincerely wanting to find truth can be so easily decieved, doesn't that imply that the deception is then stronger than truth?



I'm not entirely sure. Yes, I am focusing on the negative, as I am trying to recover and piece together something good out of the wreckage. As for what was so horrible, I could try to explain, but I don't think that it would serve any purpose. As numerous spiritual abuse threads on this forum have shown, those who have not experienced tend to think one should simply "get over it and move on", those who have been through it understand that it is not that simplistic.

I do however have 3 close friends, 2 males, and 1 female, who have been through similar experiences. They are the people I can discuss my experiences with, who can truly understand the difficulty of recovery.



Thank you.

I think you may find there are more of us than you realize. But I found having my own relationship with God pulled me through. I had His Word to stand on.

But when you get beaten down I know it is very, very hard to get back up. That is when your friends are vital to your spiritual life.

I also learned a hard lesson to keep my eyes ONLY on Jesus and NOT on Man! Hard lesson hopefully learned. I boast of nothing, as I have eaten my words more than I can count.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Esther

I think you may find there are more of us than you realize. But I found having my own relationship with God pulled me through. I had His Word to stand on.

But when you get beaten down I know it is very, very hard to get back up. That is when your friends are vital to your spiritual life.

I also learned a hard lesson to keep my eyes ONLY on Jesus and NOT on Man! Hard lesson hopefully learned. I boast of nothing, as I have eaten my words more than I can count.

Unforunately, I don't trust the Bible anymore than I trust church people. People always find that so shocking. But the truth is, from the very beginning of my experience, it has been used to manipulate and control, to enslave and oppress, and caused more division than just about anything else I have ever experienced.

It's not that I think the Bible is worthless, I simply think of it as a collection of stories written by different men about their interactions with god. But I don't believe that its inerrant, nor the ultimate and final authority.

And of course, I have to point out...I DO have a relationship with God, it's just highly dysfunctional

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Unforunately, I don't trust the Bible anymore than I trust church people. People always find that so shocking. But the truth is, from the very beginning of my experience, it has been used to manipulate and control, to enslave and oppress, and caused more division than just about anything else I have ever experienced.

It's not that I think the Bible is worthless, I simply think of it as a collection of stories written by different men about their interactions with god. But I don't believe that its inerrant, nor the ultimate and final authority.

And of course, I have to point out...I DO have a relationship with God, it's just highly dysfunctional

The Bible is your foundation, so what do you stand on.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Esther

The Bible is your foundation, so what do you stand on.

My feet

But seriously? Spiritually? I would say that I stand on Jesus. The only thing I still believe at all in. (Though we both recognize how fragile and tiny it is).

My question is this. If the bible is the foundation of the believer? What did people do before the Bible was written?

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Michlow

My feet

But seriously? Spiritually? I would say that I stand on Jesus. The only thing I still believe at all in. (Though we both recognize how fragile and tiny it is).

My question is this. If the bible is the foundation of the believer? What did people do before the Bible was written?

They had prophets and judges. The Word that came to them was probably few and far between. That is why it is so wonderful when Jesus went to the cross and rent the veil where we could have full access to Him.

The Bible is full of pure and wonderful things. Again, you can focus on all the negatives or you can sing the Psalms, or gain wisdom from the Proverbs.

What other book do you know that has been written by 39 different pens and yet have no contradictions? It is because the Spirit of God moved upon these men to write His Words.

Tell me how you can go wrong in believing and trusting in the Bible? I know some have taken things out of context of the scriptures. But YOU need to read it with an open heart and ask God to give YOU the revelation of His Word. It can be your strength if you will only let it.

[Rhoni]

Mich,

Just want you to know that the devil uses everything he can as a resource to destroy you. The word of God is not what manipulates and controls...it is men who misuse it that do. Please separate the two because if you have a relationship with Jesus, you cannot separate him from his word. He is his word. You can trust Him.

I will pray for God to put things back into perspective on your journey. You may be dysfunctional but the word of God isn't and you don't have to be. Jesus came to break those chains of dysfunction that have us all bound.

Love & Prayers, Rhoni