The Difference between PCI, PAJC and the New Heritage False Claiming Posers

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by Encryptus

The problem with arguing doctrine around the word "for". In spanish we have two words translated as "for" Por and para. It helps with exact meaning.

The "for" in the verse ... for remission of sins has TWO possibilities:

For= in order to (first definition)
For= because of (second definition)

If first then the act of baptism remits sin. If so it would be impossible to receive HG before water baptism.

If second then you are baptism, for reason of your sins being remitted.

Frankly the verse seems to be supported in the latter view.

I asked a famous UPC evangelist why God filled folks with the H.G. before baptism. He said, "they got it on loan." I'm dead serious and he was too.

Originally Posted by staysharp

I asked a famous UPC evangelist why God filled folks with the H.G. before baptism. He said, "they got it on loan." I'm dead serious and he was too.

Never mind... I'll refrain.

[ManOfWord]

I think Dan's original post is very much on target. It almost takes an "outsider" to see it. As most of you know, I spent quite a bit of time in the UPC and consider it my spiritual "heritage" if you will. However, I have also found that there is quite a bit of fear when it comes to examination of where we are today and how we got here. It seems that many are fearful of examining anything that that would hint of anything needing adjustment for fear of the whole thing toppling down.

Why do some fear the fact that G.T Haywood changed his mind on some things or anyone else for that matter. There were clearly some one-steppers who became three-steppers and three-steppers who became one-steppers. (we all know which "steppers" are right)

I also see fear when it comes to the organization itself. When will we realize that God doesn't need the UPC or any organization for that matter? If an organization hinders what God is wanting to do, then I say, "let 'er fall" and let the thing that God wants to birth be born. Change is what puts fear into most men's hearts and change is the only thing that is constant. The sooner we embrace it, the better off we'll be and we may even see more of the moving of the hand of God!!

At least that's my view, anyway.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I also see fear when it comes to the organization itself. When will we realize that God doesn't need the UPC or any organization for that matter? If an organization hinders what God is wanting to do, then I say, "let 'er fall" and let the thing that God wants to birth be born. Change is what puts fear into most men's hearts and change is the only thing that is constant. The sooner we embrace it, the better off we'll be and we may even see more of the moving of the hand of God!!

At least that's my view, anyway.

Get out of my head.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I think Dan's original post is very much on target. It almost takes an "outsider" to see it. As most of you know, I spent quite a bit of time in the UPC and consider it my spiritual "heritage" if you will. However, I have also found that there is quite a bit of fear when it comes to examination of where we are today and how we got here. It seems that many are fearful of examining anything that that would hint of anything needing adjustment for fear of the whole thing toppling down.

Why do some fear the fact that G.T Haywood changed his mind on some things or anyone else for that matter. There were clearly some one-steppers who became three-steppers and three-steppers who became one-steppers. (we all know which "steppers" are right)

I also see fear when it comes to the organization itself. When will we realize that God doesn't need the UPC or any organization for that matter? If an organization hinders what God is wanting to do, then I say, "let 'er fall" and let the thing that God wants to birth be born. Change is what puts fear into most men's hearts and change is the only thing that is constant. The sooner we embrace it, the better off we'll be and we may even see more of the moving of the hand of God!!

At least that's my view, anyway.

. Amen, MOW!

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by staysharp

I asked a famous UPC evangelist why God filled folks with the H.G. before baptism. He said, "they got it on loan." I'm dead serious and he was too.

"Got it on loan?" No way! Someone can't be that stupidly ignorant or even ignorantly stupid! You're making this up, right?

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

"Got it on loan?" No way! Someone can't be that stupidly ignorant or even ignorantly stupid! You're making this up, right?

Well... you said what I was thinking... but you were nicer than I was going to be.

That's not fair. I was hoping to keep my mouth shut. lol

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

Well... you said what I was thinking... but you were nicer than I was going to be.

That's not fair. I was hoping to keep my mouth shut. lol

Sorry, I couldn't refrain!!

When we have folks, who claim to be so superior when it comes to doctrine, say such stupid things when it comes to theology, it's no wonder why more don't listen to us when we open our mouths. Wonder how I really feel about this?

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Sorry, I couldn't refrain!!

When we have folks, who claim to be so superior when it comes to doctrine, say such stupid things when it comes to theology, it's no wonder why more don't listen to us when we open our mouths. Wonder how I really feel about this?

I agree... but I've already come to the conclusion that the ones who claim to have all the answers on what the "Apostles' Doctrine" really was truly don't have ANY answers... they have conjecture, doublespeak, and are ignorant of the people they claim to follow (the Apostles).

It's not Truth.

Oops... I opened my mouth.

[Encryptus]

Originally Posted by staysharp

I asked a famous UPC evangelist why God filled folks with the H.G. before baptism. He said, "they got it on loan." I'm dead serious and he was too.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

"Got it on loan?" No way! Someone can't be that stupidly ignorant or even ignorantly stupid! You're making this up, right?

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Sorry, I couldn't refrain!!

When we have folks, who claim to be so superior when it comes to doctrine, say such stupid things when it comes to theology, it's no wonder why more don't listen to us when we open our mouths. Wonder how I really feel about this?

On other threads where I mentioned the scenario of one filled with the HG and not yet baptized in Jesus' name, three scenarios were mentioned if the person perished on the way to the baptistery:

1. They didn't really get it.
2. God will provide divine protection until they get at least one chance.
3. Too bad they should have repented, and been water baptized sooner.

So God was either a tease, or they got it on credit.

Or they were impervious to harm....

And if they got in "on credit" I guess we have a Holy God indwelling an unclean temple.

If supernatural protection how long does it last?

Does it mean it is impossible to change mind between HG baptism and water baptism?

Inquiring minds want to know.