((((((((((((TULSA BOMBSHELL))))))))) "49 Elders" Explained!! See this LIST

[Kansas Preacher]

Originally Posted by retsambeW

I know some of the men on the list. At least two of them have no interest whatsoever in an organization after they leave the UPC. Will this be a card carrying goup, or a very organized unorganized fellowship? Just because they have a plan doesn't mean it is an organization in the legal sense.

If it turns out to be a fellowship without license, they would be foolish not to have leadership or rules of some kind involved. Else, anyone believing anything could be a part. I don't see this as a problem.

The only problem I have is some of the UPC bashing going on amongst some men bent on going to Tulsa, but again, it wasn't by anyone that made the list...

Let's be honest -- I could point out something that was done by one member of the UPC and blame the whole organization, but we both know that would not be fair. Just because one man did that in your presence does NOT mean it is the spirit behind those who are putting this together. In fact, since the guilty party is NOT on "the list," those involved cannot be held accountable for what that person did. I truly believe the men involved in this endeavor are doing their best to NOT allow "UPC bashing". That is not their attitude or spirit at all.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

Let's be honest -- I could point out something that was done by one member of the UPC and blame the whole organization, but we both know that would not be fair. Just because one man did that in your presence does NOT mean it is the spirit behind those who are putting this together. In fact, since the guilty party is NOT on "the list," those involved cannot be held accountable for what that person did. I truly believe the men involved in this endeavor are doing their best to NOT allow "UPC bashing". That is not their attitude or spirit at all.

Brother on the most part I agree with you, there are many men on this list that I respect highly, some that I don't know/haven't heard of, but there is a least one on the list that I can absolutely say has and does "UPC/UPC preacher bash". Unashamedly.

[retsambeW]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

Let's be honest -- I could point out something that was done by one member of the UPC and blame the whole organization, but we both know that would not be fair. Just because one man did that in your presence does NOT mean it is the spirit behind those who are putting this together. In fact, since the guilty party is NOT on "the list," those involved cannot be held accountable for what that person did. I truly believe the men involved in this endeavor are doing their best to NOT allow "UPC bashing". That is not their attitude or spirit at all.

When did I say it was? You won't find me saying that anywhere, any time.

However, I have been in the presence of more than one individual that has done so. Maybe the chief's better call of their lieutenants?

[Kansas Preacher]

Originally Posted by retsambeW

When did I say it was? You won't find me saying that anywhere, any time.

However, I have been in the presence of more than one individual that has done so. Maybe the chief's better call of their lieutenants?

By saying these people are "their lieutenants," you ARE accusing them of condoning these actions.

I maintain that they cannot be held accountable for the actions of those you mention any more than than the UPCI Executive Board can be held accountable for a few unscrupulous men within their organization.

[retsambeW]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

By saying these people are "their lieutenants," you ARE accusing them of condoning these actions.

I maintain that they cannot be held accountable for the actions of those you mention any more than than the UPCI Executive Board can be held accountable for a few unscrupulous men within their organization.

You are now putting words in my mouth. You at least owe me a lunch for repentance sake.

Most likely, the men involved have no idea what is being said by others not on the list. That does happen you know.

[Kansas Preacher]

Originally Posted by retsambeW

You are now putting words in my mouth. You at least owe me a lunch for repentance sake.

Most likely, the men involved have no idea what is being said by others not on the list. That does happen you know.

Exactly. That is why you shouldn't refer to those who are unscrupulous as "their lieutenants." Those were YOUR words, not mine.

[retsambeW]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

Exactly. That is why you shouldn't refer to those who are unscrupulous as "their lieutenants." Those were YOUR words, not mine.

If they are promoting this, they are lieutenants. You are right, it was my word, and I stand by it.