Are Apostolics Wise?

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Partly, it infers that God does not impart the gifts with the Holy Spirit. I understand wisdom comes with time, experience, learning, etc. But, biblically, wisdom is a gift of the Holy Spirit. (previous post)

As you read the previous passages of text, we see God does impart wisdom supernaturally. If men claim to be filled with he Holy Ghost, claim to have all truth, claim to have superior understanding to salvation, why then are they so ignorant?

Jesus was 12 years old and confounded the teachers of the temple; supernatural wisdom.

I really am trying to understand why Apostolics who claim to have the fullness of God, do not have more wisdom.

So many pastors make so many mistakes and hurt the flock, situations that could have been handled with more wisdom, have destroyed people.

I didn't have to read through the whole thread to figure out where this was going; I knew when I saw the title.

But it makes responding more convenient when it finally gets spelled out in plain language.

What we have here, gentle reader, is yet another blanket accusation and broadbrush criticism of the Church, pastors, and Apostolic people in general. How quaint and how original.

If men claim to be filled with he Holy Ghost, claim to have all truth, claim to have superior understanding to salvation, why then are they so ignorant?

Anybody can claim anything. In this profound, probing and insightful question, you have postured yourself as the guy qualified to judge these imaginary, rhetorical "ignorant" men. Who are they? How do we know they are ignorant? What makes your testimony trustworthy?

Of course, there aren't any answers here. Just another salvo from the corkgun brigade, calibrated to sow a little more disdain for God's people.

I really am trying to understand why Apostolics who claim to have the fullness of God, do not have more wisdom.

So many pastors make so many mistakes and hurt the flock, situations that could have been handled with more wisdom, have destroyed people

The New Birth is the entrance to the Kingdom. It is the starter's gun, not the finish line. It is a birth, not a diploma. It is the beginning of spiritual life, not a miraculous impartation of wisdom and spiritual maturity. Those things take time and willingness to learn and grow.

Certainly there are pastors who make terrible mistakes and hurt people. There are men filling pulpits who are probably no more called to preach than Hillary Clinton.

Human nature is what it is. Flesh is what it is.

But you are barking up the wrong tree when you try to denigrate the Truth of the Apostles doctrine by pointing out that there are people who know it who aren't everything they ought to be. You are bringing your accusation from a false premise.

If salvation instantly conferred perfection, there would be no need for the Epistles. Thus your little attempt to take a shot at Apostolics and their doctrine by pointing out a lack of wisdom in some of them is all smoke.

Nice try, though, and hey...be encouraged.

There are some folks who are always looking for another reason to justify their backsliding who will nod their heads, buy into your little deal here, and think you are one more smart cookie, sticking it to "the man" once again.

[staysharp]

I didn't have to read through the whole thread to figure out where this was going; I knew when I saw the title.

Here we go again...more assumptions! Jumping the gun. You UC's are famous for this.

What we have here, gentle reader, is yet another blanket accusation and broadbrush criticism of the Church, pastors, and Apostolic people in general. How quaint and how original.

No what we have here is an ignorant response that seeks to place blame and refuses to take responsibility. Coon, the foundation for generational Apostolicdom is our educational institutions. Why shouldn't we question what is being produced?[/QUOTE[

Anybody can claim anything. In this profound, probing and insightful question, you have postured yourself as the guy qualified to judge these imaginary, rhetorical "ignorant" men. Who are they? How do we know they are ignorant? What makes your testimony trustworthy?

A typical response from an insecure UC. Anytime anyone asks sincere honest questions, you guys shift the blame, act like it isn't happening, ignore it and attack the one asking the questions. Why can't you just admit you have areas of ignorance too? I do, you do, we all do. Ignorance is simply uneducated in a particular area of study.

i am a pastor, preacher, teacher, etc. When it comes to nuclear fusion, I am ignorant. However, i am not a nuclear scientist, I am a pastor and as such, I should not be ignorant in any scope of study relating to my field. I should learn, grow, study to show myself approved, until I die and write what I have learned for the future generations.[/QUOTE]

Of course, there aren't any answers here. Just another salvo from the corkgun brigade, calibrated to sow a little more disdain for God's people.

Again, shift the blame, get defensive and refuse to answer honestly.

The New Birth is the entrance to the Kingdom. It is the starter's gun, not the finish line. It is a birth, not a diploma. It is the beginning of spiritual life, not a miraculous impartation of wisdom and spiritual maturity. Those things take time and willingness to learn and grow.

Well, I agree in part, however are you denying the supernatural impartation of the gifts of the Spirit? Is the word of wisdom a gift of the H.G. Are you saying it takes years for this gift to develop?

Certainly there are pastors who make terrible mistakes and hurt people. There are men filling pulpits who are probably no more called to preach than Hillary Clinton.

Human nature is what it is. Flesh is what it is.

HALLELUJAH!!!

But you are barking up the wrong tree when you try to denigrate the Truth of the Apostles doctrine by pointing out that there are people who know it who aren't everything they ought to be. You are bringing your accusation from a false premise.

If salvation instantly conferred perfection, there would be no need for the Epistles. Thus your little attempt to take a shot at Apostolics and their doctrine by pointing out a lack of wisdom in some of them is all smoke.

No one is saying salvation instantly brings perfection. I am asking a legitimate question that deserves a legitimate response from you. I am simply stating that Apostolics claim to have superior revelations. If that is true, then why don't we have greater wisdom.

Most UC's believe everyone else who doesn't follow Acts 2:38 is hell bound. If that is the case, then why don't you have greater wisdom to help everyone else get out of hell?

Why are these men arguing over TV and its merit as a vehicle to carry the gospel? They should be parading their wisdom to the lost and preaching on it!

You cannot get any more ignorant than to argue TV vs. Internet the way they have defended their position. TV for entertainment, Internet for education? C'mon, this supercedes ignorance.
And then get mad and leave because they didn't get their way? Childish, ignorant behavior.

There are some folks who are always looking for another reason to justify their backsliding who will nod their heads, buy into your little deal here, and think you are one more smart cookie, sticking it to "the man" once again.

Now, I know why I started this thread, you are the perfect example, the poster child of its content.

[Coonskinner]

[

QUOTE=staysharp;327940]Here we go again...more assumptions! Jumping the gun. You UC's are famous for this.




No what we have here is an ignorant response that seeks to place blame and refuses to take responsibility. Coon, the foundation for generational Apostolicdom is our educational institutions. Why shouldn't we question what is being produced?[/QUOTE[



A typical response from an insecure UC. Anytime anyone asks sincere honest questions, you guys shift the blame, act like it isn't happening, ignore it and attack the one asking the questions. Why can't you just admit you have areas of ignorance too? I do, you do, we all do. Ignorance is simply uneducated in a particular area of study.

i am a pastor, preacher, teacher, etc. When it comes to nuclear fusion, I am ignorant. However, i am not a nuclear scientist, I am a pastor and as such, I should not be ignorant in any scope of study relating to my field. I should learn, grow, study to show myself approved, until I die and write what I have learned for the future generations.

Again, shift the blame, get defensive and refuse to answer honestly.




Well, I agree in part, however are you denying the supernatural impartation of the gifts of the Spirit? Is the word of wisdom a gift of the H.G. Are you saying it takes years for this gift to develop?



HALLELUJAH!!!



No one is saying salvation instantly brings perfection. I am asking a legitimate question that deserves a legitimate response from you. I am simply stating that Apostolics claim to have superior revelations. If that is true, then why don't we have greater wisdom.

Most UC's believe everyone else who doesn't follow Acts 2:38 is hell bound. If that is the case, then why don't you have greater wisdom to help everyone else get out of hell?

Why are these men arguing over TV and its merit as a vehicle to carry the gospel? They should be parading their wisdom to the lost and preaching on it!

You cannot get any more ignorant than to argue TV vs. Internet the way they have defended their position. TV for entertainment, Internet for education? C'mon, this supercedes ignorance.
And then get mad and leave because they didn't get their way? Childish, ignorant behavior.



Now, I know why I started this thread, you are the perfect example, the poster child of its content.

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]A couple of other points--I am not what most would consider an Ultra Con.

Most UC's believe everyone else who doesn't follow Acts 2:38 is hell bound.

That is Apostolic doctrine, not an ultra-con distinctive. There is no other entrance into the Kingdom than the New Birth.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

The New Birth is the entrance to the Kingdom. It is the starter's gun, not the finish line. It is a birth, not a diploma. It is the beginning of spiritual life, not a miraculous impartation of wisdom and spiritual maturity. Those things take time and willingness to learn and grow.

Certainly there are pastors who make terrible mistakes and hurt people. There are men filling pulpits who are probably no more called to preach than Hillary Clinton.

Human nature is what it is. Flesh is what it is.

But you are barking up the wrong tree when you try to denigrate the Truth of the Apostles doctrine by pointing out that there are people who know it who aren't everything they ought to be. You are bringing your accusation from a false premise.

If salvation instantly conferred perfection, there would be no need for the Epistles.

I concur....good post!