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[Pastor Keith]

Sad, people leaving and starting a another organization built on the premise of being against something (FEAR) rather than this is what we are for (FAITH)!

Originally Posted by keith4him

Sad, people leaving and starting a another organization built on the premise of being against something (FEAR) rather than this is what we are for (FAITH)!

Keith,

Again, this is a matter of perspective.

You see these men as forming because they are against TV or any of the myriad of other issues that have precipitated this coming separation. They see themselves as for separation, Godliness, and holiness.

It is unfair to judge them as separating because of what they are against when in reality they may be separating because of what they are for!

I tend to take the attitude my Dad always had about issues like this... "if God is in it I don't want to fight it. If God is not in it I don't need to fight it because it will fail."

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by philjones

Keith,

Again, this is a matter of perspective.

You see these men as forming because they are against TV or any of the myriad of other issues that have precipitated this coming separation. They see themselves as for separation, Godliness, and holiness.

It is unfair to judge them as separating because of what they are against when in reality they may be separating because of what they are for!

I tend to take the attitude my Dad always had about issues like this... "if God is in it I don't want to fight it. If God is not in it I don't need to fight it because it will fail."

I love ya Phil, but this is plain silly.

Some of these men may have those motives, but I dare say there is a group that just wants "power, power, wonder working power."

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I love ya Phil, but this is plain silly.

Some of these men may have those motives, but I dare say there is a group that just wants "power, power, wonder working power."

Wherein dost thou find silliness? I was simply pointing out that Keith's argument that these men are forming because of what they are Against is not a fair assessment. HE (Keith) may see it that way because of where he personally stands on the issues but that makes it merely his view and not truth.

These men, because of where they stand on the issues, see that they are forming because of what they are FOR.

You, bringing a third perspective to the party, see that these men are forming, not because of what they are against or what they are for, but because they desire power. This is because of where you stand on the issues and how your position establishes your perspective.

What am i saying? I am saying that we are all capable of being judges based on our own perspectives and we are probably all a little right and a little wrong but overall inaccurate in our assignment of motive.

I say again, if it be of God I don't want to fight it... if it be not of God I don't need to fight it because it will accomplish nothing of eternal value any way!

I just wish everyone had Dad's take on things... they would all have fewer ulcers, would sleep much better at night and would fulfill their specific call of God more effectively!

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by philjones

Keith,

Again, this is a matter of perspective.

You see these men as forming because they are against TV or any of the myriad of other issues that have precipitated this coming separation. They see themselves as for separation, Godliness, and holiness.

It is unfair to judge them as separating because of what they are against when in reality they may be separating because of what they are for!

I tend to take the attitude my Dad always had about issues like this... "if God is in it I don't want to fight it. If God is not in it I don't need to fight it because it will fail."

Your are right it is a matter of perpesctive, I guess we all argue from what we think scripture has to say about it, thus a worldview.

Since I have mine and they theirs, let me share mine.

The message of the incarnation was always pro not con, God came, God gave, God dwelt with, infilled, veil was rent, message to go and preach, lay hands on, speak words of faith, etc. I could go on, you build a ministry and life for God on what you are for, not what you are against, it runs against the whole message of the incarnation or missional element of the Gospel.

Yes there are seperation issues, gays in ministry, healing isn't for today arguements, Christ was only a good teacher, etc. I over simplified it but
I think you get my point.

These guys left or will leave because they are against worldliness, TV, slide towards liberal ideas. Their conferences all say the same, a place of safety for our young people, people with the heritage, etc.

Since when do we build evangelism and living for God on safety and protection, if that was the viewpoint of the Lord, he would have stayed in Heaven, and would have never risked the message of salvation with a bunch of sinners.

As the famed CT Studd said, some want to live within the sounds of chapel bells, I want to build a mission a yard from the Gates of hell!

Originally Posted by keith4him

Your are right it is a matter of perpesctive, I guess we all argue from what we think scripture has to say about it, thus a worldview.

Since I have mine and they theirs, let me share mine.

The message of the incarnation was always pro not con, God came, God gave, God dwelt with, infilled, veil was rent, message to go and preach, lay hands on, speak words of faith, etc. I could go on, you build a ministry and life for God on what you are for, not what you are against, it runs against the whole message of the incarnation or missional element of the Gospel.

Yes there are seperation issues, gays in ministry, healing isn't for today arguements, Christ was only a good teacher, etc. I over simplified it but
I think you get my point.

These guys left or will leave because they are against worldliness, TV, slide towards liberal ideas. Their conferences all say the same, a place of safety for our young people, people with the heritage, etc.

Since when do we build evangelism and living for God on safety and protection, if that was the viewpoint of the Lord, he would have stayed in Heaven, and would have never risked the message of salvation with a bunch of sinners.

As the famed CT Studd said, some want to live within the sounds of chapel bells, I want to build a mission a yard from the Gates of hell!

Wow... didn't mean to make you shout !

I think you and everyone else here is missing my point... intentionally or otherwise.

I have said all I intend to say on the subject.


Except this... we all have our own twisted views and yours is just as twisted to your way of thinking as mine is to my way of thinking. Certainly you are no more right or no more wrong than I am for it is all personal opinion and view point. In myview you are unfairly judging men's motives but in your view it is merely calling a spade a spade. Nothing else i can say will change your view and nothing you will say will change mine. Does that make me any more closed minded than you? I dare say it does not. Welcome to the club of personal opinion... you are now a charter member.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Sad, people leaving and starting a another organization built on the premise of being against something (FEAR) rather than this is what we are for (FAITH)!

Novel concept, what is that about? EXTREME TIC.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Sad, people leaving and starting a another organization built on the premise of being against something (FEAR) rather than this is what we are for (FAITH)!

Matt asked somewhere why all the fuss- you all wanted them to leave and now you are upset that they did leave.

If there were acceptance of immorality such as spousal immorality, I wonder if some of you would think the same of a new org starting.

What if the acceptance of Gays in ministry afflicted the UPCI?? Would you then say that these men were so bad?

The Ultra-Conservative Mindset considers TV as unacceptable as Gays in the pulpit.

Some of you need to go with the flow, and let them leave and

Get over it.



(not personally against you Keith)

[Thad]

Boomm check your PM

[Thad]

*****NEWSFLASH*****


Has anyone heard reports about preachers/Pastors who were planning to come to Tulsa being upset over the discovery of all the officials already being chosen??

some preachers that were planning to come were under the impression that that is part of what the conference was for !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!