Where are all the Acts 2:38 folks (3-steppers)??

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

In all I have read, I have seen much said that God's grace is not sufficient for the salvation of the soul, because we must have a man to say the sacred name of Jesus Christ over us in baptism for our sins to be remitted. Faith and grace have nothing to do with salvation it looks like, and the precious sacrifice of Calvary is not good enough.

In all that my three-step brethren have put forth, they have failed a litmus test of the scripture, the Ephesians 2:8-9 test.



I do feel strongly about this, now more than ever, that we are saved before baptism, but we are baptized because we are saved.

God does not give down payments on salvation either. The truth of this is found when several of the believers in the Bible received the baptism of the Holy Ghost before being baptized in water. They were saved, baptized with the Holy Ghost, and then baptized in Jesus name. We know that God does not dwell in unclean vessels according to the scriptures, thus a soul has to have been cleansed prior to their receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Another point lies in the issue of foreshadowing in the Old testament. When a soul was labeled cleaned by the priest, they were not mikvehed (baptized) then labeled clean. The priest announced the individual clean, and then they washed in water. This is so powerful as a foreshadow of baptism in our time. Baptism does not wash away sins, but we are baptized because our sins are washed away.

To my three-step brethren, I am still Apostolic. I still believe in Oneness, baptism in Jesus name, baptism of the Holy Ghost, and living a consecrated life before the Lord. I believe, as the Apostles did, that once a soul repents and confesses their sins, Jesus is faithful enough to forgive them of their sins and cleanse them of all unrighteousness. His blood is that powerful and His sacrifice was that great.

Bro. Price are you calling what grace provided NOT being grace????
That passage you and all faith only teachers misuse contradicts your only Baptist theology(didn't call you a Baptist mind you just your theology.)
BECAUSE nothing is said about repentance in the passage and man does the repenting NOT GOD!!!!!!!!
The verse is simply teaching man cannot merit his salvation by good works this has NOTHING to do with OBEYING the gospel. OBEDIENCE to the gospel is NOT works it is true genuine Biblical faith.
I believed so I repented.
I believed so I was baptized.
I believed so I recieved His Spirit.
I believe so I walk daily with Him until He appears.
Water was as much of the Tabernacle plan as the blood.
Blood-water-oil.

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Bro. Price are you calling what grace provided NOT being grace????
That passage you and all faith only teachers misuse contradicts your only Baptist theology(didn't call you a Baptist mind you just your theology.)
BECAUSE nothing is said about repentance in the passage and man does the repenting NOT GOD!!!!!!!!
The verse is simply teaching man cannot merit his salvation by good works this has NOTHING to do with OBEYING the gospel. OBEDIENCE to the gospel is NOT works it is true genuine Biblical faith.
I believed so I repented.
I believed so I was baptized.
I believed so I recieved His Spirit.
I believe so I walk daily with Him until He appears.
Water was as much of the Tabernacle plan as the blood.
Blood-water-oil.

Bro. Epley,

Thanks for your response. I do not take offense at your calling this a Baptist theology. In my time, I have been called much worse, as have my beliefs.

You made a good point in the above post, and I do not think you really realized what you said, brother. You said:

The verse is simply teaching man cannot merit his salvation by good works this has NOTHING to do with OBEYING the gospel. OBEDIENCE to the gospel is NOT works it is true genuine Biblical faith.

Brother Epley, the Gospel is the life, death, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. Obedience to the Gospel involves faith, not works. For God so loved the world the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 is the verse of the Gospel in which Jesus shows how much God loves us, that when we believe on Jesus, we shall not perish (the second death) but have everlasting life.

You also said in the above:

BECAUSE nothing is said about repentance in the passage and man does the repenting NOT GOD!!!!!!!!

This is so true. We must come to Christ by faith, and repent of our sins. The scripture I gave speaks of the grace of God being given through our faith. It does not negate the need for repentance, but shows us that our salvation comes by the favor of God when we believe.

Brother, listen to this young man. I still believe in Jesus name baptism, even more strongly now than I ever did. But, I see the grace of God being stronger than anything else. His blood is sufficient. Man does not need to help save, for we are saved by the favor of God when we believe.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Bro. Epley,

Thanks for your response. I do not take offense at your calling this a Baptist theology. In my time, I have been called much worse, as have my beliefs.

You made a good point in the above post, and I do not think you really realized what you said, brother. You said:



Brother Epley, the Gospel is the life, death, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. Obedience to the Gospel involves faith, not works. For God so loved the world the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 is the verse of the Gospel in which Jesus shows how much God loves us, that when we believe on Jesus, we shall not perish (the second death) but have everlasting life.

You also said in the above:



This is so true. We must come to Christ by faith, and repent of our sins. The scripture I gave speaks of the grace of God being given through our faith. It does not negate the need for repentance, but shows us that our salvation comes by the favor of God when we believe.

Brother, listen to this young man. I still believe in Jesus name baptism, even more strongly now than I ever did. But, I see the grace of God being stronger than anything else. His blood is sufficient. Man does not need to help save, for we are saved by the favor of God when we believe.

Bro. Price it is YOU that do not realize what you posted.
Yes the foundation of the Christian experience is His death-burial-resurrection and PAUL(not DAN) said we experience that through being identified with His death-burial-resurrection and the burial taught by Paul is BAPTISM. Rom.6:3-4, Col.2:12.
Our burial places us INTO Christ verse 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is FAITH not mental assent but obeying was faith demands!
Faith demands something out of all that believe read Hebrews 11!
Salvation does come WHEN we believe the proof of Bible faith is to obey the gospel.
MAN repents NOT God thus according to your theology repentance must be WORKS since man does it. If repentance is NOT works then baptism is NOT works they both stand or fall on the same premise MAN is doing it as his part of faith.
NO man is saved BY only what God has done that is what universalism is teaching the doctrine of inclusion. God has done His part perfectly it is man that must obey what grace and the blood has provided.
The lamb provided the blood but man placed it on the door post. GOD did not put one drop of blood on ONE doorpost in Egypt but He did provide the plan and the blood.
My reason for calling your doctrine Baptist is because I have been fussing with the Baptist for over 40 years and this is their doctrine. This is not meant as a personal insult. If a man doesn't want to be identified with the Baptist he should not promote Baptist doctrine.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

If a man doesn't want to be identified with the Baptist he should promote Baptist doctrine.

If a man, or woman, doesn't want to be identified as a baptismal regenerationist [a doctrine also espoused by Catholics and other extreme groups] he should not promote said doctrine.

We are buried at baptism Elder? Really just buried?

Romans 6 says baptism identifies us w/ his death, burial and resurrection.

Paul likens it to all three steps

... works that our PAJC brethren would like us to re-enact.

All fulfilled by the Work of the Lamb.

--------------------------------
3Or do you not know that all of us who have been (E)baptized into (F)Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4Therefore we have been (G)buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was (H)raised from the dead through the (I)glory of the Father, so we too might walk in (J)newness of life.

Where does he make that point ... because he likens baptism to Christ's death verse 3 .... and HIS burial and resurrection in verse 4.

5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

The blood ... the work of the Lamb destroys sin ... in this context.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

If a man, or woman, doesn't want to be identified w/ baptismal regenerationist [a doctrine also espoused by Catholics and other extreme groups] he should not promote said doctrine.

We are buried at baptism Elder? Really just buried?

Romans 6 says baptism identifies us w/ his death, burial and resurrection.

Paul likens it to all three steps

... works that our PAJC brethren would like us to re-enact.

All fulfilled by the Work of the Lamb.

--------------------------------
3Or do you not know that all of us who have been (E)baptized into (F)Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4Therefore we have been (G)buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was (H)raised from the dead through the (I)glory of the Father, so we too might walk in (J)newness of life.

Where does he make that point ... because he likens baptism to Christ's death verse 3 .... and HIS burial and resurrection in verse 4.

5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

The blood ... the work of the Lamb destroys sin ... in this context.

Dan you know baptismal regeneration does NOT require faith are you intentionally misrepresenting us or you don't care.
That is why they baptize babies like their reform descendants.
Again Dan you will have to resurrect the great Apostle Paul and debate him. I just quote and believe what he said.
Buried WITH Him in baptism.
Baptized INTO His death.
Planted TOGETHER in the likeness of His death.

Dan who does NOT believe the blood destroys sin???? Not I.
ONLY the blood saves-redeems-sanctifies-forgives-remits-pardons sins.
That is NOT the argument the argument is when and how. NOT whether the blood does the work or not and YOU know that as well as I.
You create strawmen then debate them. But I am NOT your strawman and I will refute your every misrepresentation of the Apostolic message.
Was your father a Papist?

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Was your father a Papist?

OK, I was lurking for a moment before I needed to start getting ready, but when I said this, I logged back on and decided to throw this in.

Bro. Epley, that was so far below the belt, it was not funny. You know better than to do this, my dear brother. This is just uncalled for.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

OK, I was lurking for a moment before I needed to start getting ready, but when I said this, I logged back on and decided to throw this in.

Bro. Epley, that was so far below the belt, it was not funny. You know better than to do this, my dear brother. This is just uncalled for.

I would answer him but then we would have to put the views of his father on the stand.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

OK, I was lurking for a moment before I needed to start getting ready, but when I said this, I logged back on and decided to throw this in.

Bro. Epley, that was so far below the belt, it was not funny. You know better than to do this, my dear brother. This is just uncalled for.

No Bro. Price that is NOT below the belt Dan's father preached Acts 2:38 as salvation so if I am a Papist then his father was a Papist. My father believes somewhat like Dan I am not offended if someone calls him a Baptist. I did not mean offense I am appealing to Dan's reasoning above his prejudice against truth.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

OK, I was lurking for a moment before I needed to start getting ready, but when I said this, I logged back on and decided to throw this in.

Bro. Epley, that was so far below the belt, it was not funny. You know better than to do this, my dear brother. This is just uncalled for.

Interjection here. BP why complain about SE doing this but not when others do it? Your complaints are one sided.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

OK, I was lurking for a moment before I needed to start getting ready, but when I said this, I logged back on and decided to throw this in.

Bro. Epley, that was so far below the belt, it was not funny. You know better than to do this, my dear brother. This is just uncalled for.

You know, I was gonna push for some action on this but after reading what he posted and later posts I can see his intent was not to insult.

DA insists such a viewpoint is "paptist, sacramentalist, baptismal regenerationalist" in nature and if DAs father held such a view it would be fair then to ask DA if his own father was a such in DAs estimation.

In any case the Admins are looking at this.