Where are all the Acts 2:38 folks (3-steppers)??

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

God is responsible, that is why there is a judgment. If, after allowing evil to have reign He did nothing about it, then He would be guilty of injustice.

There's a difference between "responsibility" and "guilt." Guilt means there was a moral failing on the part of the guilty. God is not "guilty." He is responsible, however. It is His creation and the results of His act in creating are his responsibility.

But back to the effect of of grace in salvation, Romans 9:16: "it does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy."

Of course, this is just one side of the coin. But it is the side that we as Apostolics often overlook. There is a fundamental paradox between free will and determinism. The debates around this are older than even the Christian faith. We could have the same debates endlessly here but neither side will be resolved, because fundamentally both sides are correct.

And as Christians we need both sides preached in balance. Grace and human responsibility. Both are correct.

Okay, I'll let this one drop even though there is more I could say.

In fact it can be said that you are not even making a choice in the matter. The choice was made for you before you were ever born when God selected you for salvation from before the foundation of the world.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Okay, I'll let this one drop even though there is more I could say.

I believe we're on the same page with regard to Acts 2:38 salvation. It's just that there's "another side of the coin" that is equally as true.

I think that because there are millions of Evangelicals who preach ONLY that other side, many of us have conditioned ourselves to resist the ideas of predestination and grace. In the UPC we have often said, "the church is predestined, but not the individual..." That is a wrong way to articulate this.

We as individuals are predestined. We are made and fashioned to be the kind of vessels that our Maker intended. Yet, simultaneously it is our own free will choices that determine the type of people that we are. It's a paradox.

And Mizpeh, I wish you and your family the happiest of New Years. I hope 2008 is a great year of revival and joy for you!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I believe we're on the same page with regard to Acts 2:38 salvation. It's just that there's "another side of the coin" that is equally as true.

I think that because there are millions of Evangelicals who preach ONLY that other side, many of us have conditioned ourselves to resist the ideas of predestination and grace. In the UPC we have often said, "the church is predestined, but not the individual..." That is a wrong way to articulate this.

We as individuals are predestined. We are made and fashioned to be the kind of vessels that our Maker intended. Yet, simultaneously it is our own free will choices that determine the type of people that we are. It's a paradox.

And Mizpeh, I wish you and your family the happiest of New Years. I hope 2008 is a great year of revival and joy for you!

I would love to discuss predestination with you but it sounds like your not interested. So some other time. I believe in predestination but the way some folks articulate it, I think they portray God as unjust and arbitrary. Which is contrary to His very nature.

Thank you so much for the New Year wish.

Are you are prophet? Because I already know both revival and joy are in God's plans for me this year and the church I attend.

I wish you and your family all the best as well this New Year.


I have to ask. My curiosity is getting the best of me. Do you go to church with Carp? Do you sit next to him in the pew?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I would love to discuss predestination with you but it sounds like your not interested. So some other time. I believe in predestination but the way some folks articulate it, I think they portray God as unjust and arbitrary. Which is contrary to His very nature.

Thank you so much for the New Year wish.

Are you are prophet? Because I already know both revival and joy are in God's plans for me this year and the church I attend.

I wish you and your family all the best as well this New Year.


I have to ask. My curiosity is getting the best of me. Do you go to church with Carp? Do you sit next to him in the pew?

I wish I could answer that online... but I'm afraid it might cause Carp to jump right out of his shoes. I don't think he knows who I am right now.