Romans 10:9

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The author does not speak of faith alone...the narration or Jesus uses this analogy to show what needed to happen to Jesus. Those same people that had faith to be healed failed to enter the promised land because of a lack of faith.....

So the analogy stops at the lifting up and does not include the believing unto salvation? Isn't the following true?

Joh 3:14-15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That [as with the lifted serpent] whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life..... 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life......20:30-31 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Adino

So the analogy stops at the lifting up and does not include the believing unto salvation? Isn't the following true?

Joh 3:14-15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That [as with the lifted serpent] whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life..... 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life......20:30-31 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

I never said the following was not true, however the only part of the bronze serpent story that is elaborated on is the part about being lifted up. He never says "and just as they looked to the bronze serpent in faith to be healed so too if they look to me hanging on the cross to be saved they will be saved"....it might be true, but the text does not say that and it seems you are either assuming that is what was meant or reading it into the text

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I never said the following was not true, however the only part of the bronze serpent story that is elaborated on is the part about being lifted up. He never says "and just as they looked to the bronze serpent in faith to be healed so too if they look to me hanging on the cross to be saved they will be saved"....it might be true, but the text does not say that and it seems you are either assuming that is what was meant or reading it into the text

I could list you commentary after commentary which say just the opposite. They would say the intended implication is a definite one of the soul looking to the lifted Christ in faith for salvation just as they looked to the serpent in faith to be healed. Many would add the reference of Isaiah 45:22 which calls on man to "look on me [YHWH] and be saved."

The words "whosoever believeth in him" in verse 15 are very clearly connected to the concept of the salvation which came by looking upon the lifted serpent. The parallel is extreme because it is faith in the lifted objects which brings salvation in both counts. To remove this concept from the serpent on the pole event is ..... forced blindness. Saving faith in Christ is paralleled to the saving faith those had in the wilderness when they looked on the raised serpent. I realize this very apparent connection would require you to forfeit a bit of your paradigm, but I do pray you strive for objectivity here.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Adino

I could list you commentary after commentary which say just the opposite. They would say the intended implication is a definite one of the soul looking to the lifted Christ in faith for salvation just as they looked to the serpent in faith to be healed. Many would add the reference of Isaiah 45:22 which calls on man to "look on me [YHWH] and be saved."

The words "whosoever believeth in him" in verse 15 are very clearly connected to the concept of the salvation which came by looking upon the lifted serpent. The parallel is extreme because it is faith in the lifted objects which brings salvation in both counts. To remove this concept from the serpent on the pole event is ..... forced blindness. Saving faith in Christ is paralleled to the saving faith those had in the wilderness when they looked on the raised serpent. I realize this very apparent connection would require you to forfeit a bit of your paradigm, but I do pray you strive for objectivity here.

says the opposite of what? You asked for exegesis right? Read the text bro...it simply only mentions Jesus being lifted up like the bronze serpent would..the rest is conjecture....it might be right, but you asked about the text right?