LADIES please take my Holiness Test Thanks

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

I was never in bondage to standards. But I was (personally) in bondage to fear. Fear permeated my entire spiritual walk. Fear of displeasing God, fear of being carnal, or worldly, fear that doing the tiniest little thing wrong would send me to hell, or at the very least cause God to "chasten me" (i.e. send great suffering into my life to send me a lesson).

So I do feel like I have been liberated. Because by living in constant fear of hell, my life pretty much already was.

I DO understand this, Mich! I lived in a lot of fear too - of not ever being good enough for God. But that was my own misunderstanding of the Word, I think.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by Sherri

I DO understand this, Mich! I lived in a lot of fear too - of not ever being good enough for God. But that was my own misunderstanding of the Word, I think.

I suppose whether we say its my understanding, or its how it was taught to me, is just semantics (but I can't resist making the point! lol)

The truth is, as I have slowly pulled away the layers of fear that permeated my entire religious experience, I find that there is nothing left. Everything I ever did, or believed was in response to the fear. In fact, my entire relationship was built on it. I guess it was my golden calf.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

I suppose whether we say its my understanding, or its how it was taught to me, is just semantics (but I can't resist making the point! lol)

The truth is, as I have slowly pulled away the layers of fear that permeated my entire religious experience, I find that there is nothing left. Everything I ever did, or believed was in response to the fear. In fact, my entire relationship was built on it. I guess it was my golden calf.

Your entire relationship was built upon fear? Does this mean you couldn't have a relationship with God built upon by love? What exactly do you mean "entire"?

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Your entire relationship was built upon fear? Does this mean you couldn't have a relationship with God built upon by love? What exactly do you mean "entire"?

It doesn't mean that I couldn't have a relationship with God built upon by love. It only means that I didn't. What I found was that when I removed fear from the equation, there was nothing left. No convictions, no relationship, no beliefs, other than what had been motivated by fear. More importantly it seems to point towards the conclusion that I never had a true relationship with God in the first place.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

It doesn't mean that I couldn't have a relationship with God built upon by love. It only means that I didn't. What I found was that when I removed fear from the equation, there was nothing left. No convictions, no relationship, no beliefs, other than what had been motivated by fear. More importantly it seems to point towards the conclusion that I never had a true relationship with God in the first place.

I don't say this to be mean, honest, but don't you think that you could start over and do it with love? Forget about standards, forget about church politics, forget about hell, forget about what the posters here argue about. Why not simply develop a relationship with God out of the sake of love? I mean every other relationship you have is with love isn't it? You love your husband, you love your kids, you love your mom and dad, you even have friends that you love I'm sure. Why don't you simply try and love God? Or are you having fun at our expense?.......................................... ........................Well, anyway it isn't too late if you really want to have a meaningful relationship with God. Fear is the beginning of wisdom, but it's sad when you cannot go beyond the fear because perfect love casts out all fear.

[Sherri]

Anyway, Mich, there are many of us on here who LOVE you lots. Maybe you will see the love of God someday through people here on earth. Maybe you will learn to trust again.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Anyway, Mich, there are many of us on here who LOVE you lots. Maybe you will see the love of God someday through people here on earth. Maybe you will learn to trust again.

Thank you Sherri

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

I don't say this to be mean, honest, but don't you think that you could start over and do it with love? Forget about standards, forget about church politics, forget about hell, forget about what the posters here argue about. Why not simply develop a relationship with God out of the sake of love? I mean every other relationship you have is with love isn't it? You love your husband, you love your kids, you love your mom and dad, you even have friends that you love I'm sure. Why don't you simply try and love God? Or are you having fun at our expense?.......................................... ........................Well, anyway it isn't too late if you really want to have a meaningful relationship with God. Fear is the beginning of wisdom, but it's sad when you cannot go beyond the fear because perfect love casts out all fear.

Bro E, you make it sound as easy as I wish it could be.

The truth is that I AM actually trying to start over. I am trying to rebuild, but it's not as easy as you make it sound. I don't deny that i am stubborn and thick-headed and difficult, but even beyond that, I have no concept of God outside of the fear. In my mind it is almost impossible to think of God separately from the capricious and malicious bully I came to believe that he was.

It is one thing to say that God is gracious and loving and good and trustworthy, but the voice of my experience speaks louder. It says that he is waiting to punish, that he is a hard taskmaster, than nothing is ever good enough, that he asks too much and punishes you when you fail.

Which is not to say that I am right, in fact the tiny bit of faith that I have hopes that I am wrong.

But how can I develop a relationship with someone that I don't like? How can I love someone that I don't trust? How can I follow someone that I don't believe has my best welfare in mind?

I think that you have a much different view of God than I do, and I think that you cannot imagine how anyone cannot love God, cannot think that he is good or trustworthy, and I don't think you can understand why someone would be wary of a relationship with him.

I think the ball is in God's court. Obviously nothing can change until he someone shows me that he's different than I think He is. I don't pretend that is going to be an easy accomplishment. I am very skittish, and twitchy, and suspicious of it all.

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

Bro E, you make it sound as easy as I wish it could be.

The truth is that I AM actually trying to start over. I am trying to rebuild, but it's not as easy as you make it sound. I don't deny that i am stubborn and thick-headed and difficult, but even beyond that, I have no concept of God outside of the fear. In my mind it is almost impossible to think of God separately from the capricious and malicious bully I came to believe that he was.

It is one thing to say that God is gracious and loving and good and trustworthy, but the voice of my experience speaks louder. It says that he is waiting to punish, that he is a hard taskmaster, than nothing is ever good enough, that he asks too much and punishes you when you fail.

Which is not to say that I am right, in fact the tiny bit of faith that I have hopes that I am wrong.

But how can I develop a relationship with someone that I don't like? How can I love someone that I don't trust? How can I follow someone that I don't believe has my best welfare in mind?

I think that you have a much different view of God than I do, and I think that you cannot imagine how anyone cannot love God, cannot think that he is good or trustworthy, and I don't think you can understand why someone would be wary of a relationship with him.

I think the ball is in God's court. Obviously nothing can change until he someone shows me that he's different than I think He is. I don't pretend that is going to be an easy accomplishment. I am very skittish, and twitchy, and suspicious of it all.

Mich, just wondering if you're reading the Bible on a regular basis. Also, what are you doing in order to get reacquainted with the One who created you. I'm not sure anyone can show you that He's different than you think He is - it's something you will have to find out on your own. Hopefully, you're spending a great deal of time with the Lord. (How else can you get to know someone?)

Beginning any relationship is a risk and can cause a person to feel skittish, twitchy, and suspicious; but it seems to me that you've been willing to take such risks with other humans; why not, then, take this same risk with the God of all?

I think you know that God cares for you and has your best interests at heart MUCH more so than any human -- although, you won't admit that. (Perhaps it's only head-knowledge right now, rather than heart-knowledge.) Regardless, IF you are serious about re-learning who and what God is, then the ONLY way to do that is to take the risk and just DO it. The Lord will NOT keep Himself unknown to you, if you are sincerely seeking Him.

I totally disagree that the ball is in God's court, as you say. It's completely up to YOU to build this relationship with Jesus. HE waits for US. (I don't think you'd like a pushy God.)

You asked how you can love a God you don't trust, or build a relationship with Him if you don't like Him. The answer to those questions is: You just DO it. Take the plunge - take the risk... it's the safest risk you will ever take... which, in reality, you know. You won't overcome this fear you talk about until you take one step towards God, then another & another. Standing still won't change a thing. I think that you've become quite comfortable where you are, frankly. The time is NOW. I mean, what's the worst that could happen... you find out you've been right all along? What's the best that could happen... you find out you've been wrong?