Goodness, if anything, our justice system lets too many guilty folks OFF the hook--not the other way around. Let an investigator put a piece of evidence in the wrong refrigerator and the whole things ruined, no matter how guilty the perp.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Can you explain why I as a Christian should embrace a system that has wrongfully executed individuals in the past and will wrongfully execute more individuals in the future?
Can you explain why I as a Christian should continue to pay for the convicts in prison with my tax dollars? Based upon your argument with nahkoe, we shouldn't pay for single women with welfare, so I am applying the same principle that you have used, but with a different angle.;-)
dude, you just dont know how funny you are! But thanks for the diversion I surely needed it!
Ferd,
In all fairness, you have put me on the spot more than a few times. Something about glass houses comes to mind...
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Isaiah 53:5: "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."(KJV)
"God sends no one away empty except those who are full of themselves." Dwight L. Moody
Actually, I disagree. Most historic Christian groups in the US such as early Anabaptists, Baptists, Amish, brethren churches, and congregationalists had specific standards against the death penalty.
Also...you didn't answer the question. Do you think our criminal justice system is right 100% of the time? Is the execution of one wrongfully prosecuted individual acceptable in our code of moral ethics?
How do you feel about the following statements as given by a prominent Apostolic Pastor, David Bernard:
Now I contend that it is the conservative Christian who is drifting from the foundational morality of Scripture and Christian ethics as they embrace their marriage with this world's politics. Christians are starting to value being popular conservatives over being...Christian.
Well, this is probably going to really shock the socks off of some folks around here, but I would agree with you that Christians should not be advocates for the death penalty. Your argument against corporate punishment was sound and it left one of AFF's best debaters acting very much out of character.
Welcome to AFF!
__________________
Isaiah 53:5: "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."(KJV)
"God sends no one away empty except those who are full of themselves." Dwight L. Moody
Most money saved by corporations in the way of tax cuts and rebates is invested in foreign stocks and markets.
Do you any source for that assertion? The last big "corporate tax cut" was back in W's first term and was prompted by threats of a trade war with the EU. The "savings" weren't "invested overseas" but largely here at home. The US economy is still the safest and best place to invest- for anyone! And with the value of the dollar moving the way it has been the last 2 years, more foreign investment will come shopping here and it only makes sense for the US dollars to stay at home as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherHall
Only smaller corporations who rarely venture out side of the US when it comes to investing have a chance to pass that savings down to the employee. A good example would be Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart received massive amounts of money when taxes were cut.
And how much did the evil WalMart Empire reap? You just made that up. The tax cuts were directed at manufacturing and agriculture to make up for the "loss" of some agricultural subsidies that the EU was demanding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherHall
Employee salaries and benefits weren't raised, the number of positions didn't increase outside of store growth projections. But they invested far more in foreign markets benefiting foreign economies more than the United States economy.
Let's be upfront here, you have no idea how much or where WalMart invests it's profits. They have been "investing" in China- by building WalMart stores over there.
Secondly, why in the world should they add staff to stores that are already fully staffed? And they are a notorious cost cutter- that's how they save you money on your pampers. If American society doesn't see a long term benefit in shopping at WalMart stores and its employees don't like it there - WalMart will cease to exist.
And, when we do invest in those unwashed foreigners and benefit their "foreign economies" we benefit the U.S. Prosperous nations are less likely to be jealous and covetous nations and thus war is avoided. And again, not that much U.S. capital is fleeing these shores- it just doesn't make good business sense with the value of the dollar right now. We'll have to wait a few more years before it makes sense to invest big time overseas, it's just the business cycle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherHall
The top 2% received very healthy tax cuts. That's a fact.
No, it's not a "fact." Did you look at your tax rebate material? People making over $100,000k don't even qualify. The last time they got a break was when Reagan was in office- and taxes have been raised several times since then - twice by Clinton which represented the two biggest tax rate increases in the history of the US. A tax break by Bush in 2004 was in order- and even then, he didn't set things back to the way they were briefly under Reagan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherHall
Most wealthy individuals have more options for tax shelters than the average middle class American. That means, if the wealthy intelligently saves their money they can evade a significant measure of taxation. Those who are not familiar with this process don't know about these shelters.
Like the Kennedy family's (in)famous tax shelter/trust fund set up in Tonga? Most of that is said to be invested in oil companies. The limousine liberal crowd banks heavily in Switzerland, the Caymans and other "off shore" locals. "Off shore" was how Joseph Kennedy made his money, running molasses from Cuba to make booze for Al Capone during prohibition.
Honestly, if you covet the wealth of the wealthy just pull a heist. Why use government to rob those people? Government always takes a huge bite that just disappears into a blackhole. By following a life of "honest" crime you could be your own boss, set your own hours and build wealth for yourself.
Well, this is probably going to really shock the socks off of some folks around here, but I would agree with you that Christians should not be advocates for the death penalty. Your argument against corporate punishment was sound and it left one of AFF's best debaters acting very much out of character.
Welcome to AFF!
Now that there is funny!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Antipas, below is an article that I wrote for an assignment that I recently completed. This is for you.
Should the U.S. Continue to use Capital Punishment?
I believe that the U.S. should continue to utilize this method of justice for a couple of reasons. Having made this statement, I would like to interject that no system of justice is infallible, and there is nothing that humanity can do to avoid mistakes in any of the decisions that they might make in the future.
The first reason that I support capital punishment is based upon my moral values from my upbringing. These values are biblically based; however, even within the bible there seems to be some contradiction to certain individuals. The faith based men and women who dispute the validity of such punishment, should turn their attention to Numbers 35:16-21, and also verse 30. One argument from this passage might be the fact that we as Christians are not bound by those laws which were written to the Hebrew people. If that is there argument, then one could easily remind them of a universal law submitted by God before the laws of the Hebrews. This law is found in Genesis 9:6, “Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.” I question the validity of someone’s argument that the death penalty isn’t morally right, in fact, based upon the scriptures it is a moral responsibility to carry out this punishment.
Capital punishment should also be utilized for the victims’ families. Sources from three different web sites reveal that a majority of Americans are in favor of the death penalty; these polls show that the U.S. adult constituency has supported this practice by at least 60% since the 1980’s. The web links are: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...id=23&did=1266 , www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/opinion.htm , and http://abcnews.go.com/sections/polit...poll000619.htm . Being that I am a strong proponent of democracy, I believe that Americans should decide on this issue as well.
To answer an article on why lethal injection would be humane depends upon whether “humane” is subjective. When someone says that killing is inhumane, they should take into consideration of the countless victims who faced the same “inhumane” actions of those that murdered. Based upon this reasoning, I would say that it is more humane to administer an anesthesia, paralytic, and then the potassium chloride, than to utilize whatever weapon the murderer used. Some of the arguments based upon the media’s article from the St. Petersburg Times are also in question. In the article, it has been stated that witnesses thought that Angel Diaz “appeared to suffer” when he was administered the drugs. What comes into question from the preceding sentence is; how would they know? Are they medical professionals? The gasping and movement by the condemned are normal occurrences of the drug being administered. According to the web link found at www.nebi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17094530, fasciculation typically happens when the anesthetic drug is administered to begin with. The same drugs that are used for lethal injection are also used by operating room anesthesiologists (other than the actual potassium chloride). Why is it that these drugs aren’t remembered as painful by their patients? Humane is subjective in this case.
The most important element to remember is the victims’ families. People want closure from the violence and injustice caused by someone else’s inhumane act.
The US criminal justice system has executed innocent people before and will again. Is this acceptable to you?
Also do you believe it is right for anyone to use the government as an agent of revenge? In Europe individuals have more satisfaction knowing that the individual committing horrific crimes will live the rest of their lives like animals behind bars. The issue is that in American culture people feel that justice should bring revenge, oh...closure. In truth, closure only comes from forgiveness and surrender to God's purpose. I heard an awesome story about a father who forgave and even adopted the young person who killed his son. Christianity must rise ABOVE the godlessness of this world's sense of justice.
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