Charismatic Apostolic

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

But can we be like Jesus, Pel? Did He not sin because He was God or because He was a man anointed of God who always sought to please His Father?

I don't understand the your question.

Consider 1 John 3:2. What I will become when I am truly "like" Him won't have anything to do with my striving against sin. It will be a result of His appearance and something that happens then that I probably won't have a lot of power over.

In the meantime, yes, we are to seek to be more and more like Him. But to use the English word "perfect" here seems to be hubristic to me. We are not as perfect as God is. Plain and simple, unless you want to constantly state that you are actually using the word "perfect" in some specialized way and with your own special definitions. In which case it's probably better to just use a different word.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I don't understand the your question.

Consider 1 John 3:2. What I will become when I am truly "like" Him won't have anything to do with my striving against sin. It will be a result of His appearance and something that happens then that I probably won't have a lot of power over.

In the meantime, yes, we are to seek to be more and more like Him. But to use the English word "perfect" here seems to be hubristic to me. We are not as perfect as God is. Plain and simple, unless you want to constantly state that you are actually using the word "perfect" in some specialized way and with your own special definitions. In which case it's probably better to just use a different word.

We are to walk as Christ walked. He is our example in all things. We have the same baptism Christ had, we are filled with the Holy Spirit just as He was. My question has to do with, as you said, "striving against sin" and can we live an overcoming life just as Christ did....a life above sin empowered by the Spirit Is it possible?

Or did Christ succeed in living a sinless life because He was God? If that is true, then it would be impossible for us to live an overcoming life because we are not God. I don't think Christ relied on His divine powers to overcome the temptations of the flesh and of the eyes, etc. but fully trusted in His Father in all things.

I'm not trying to compare us to God the Father and the purity of God but God in his manifestion as a man in which He calls us, brethren. In which, though still pure because He was without sin, He has set an example to which we strive to be like.

I haven't used the word, perfection, at all. Are you equating perfection with lack of sin? I'm speaking to a life that is overcoming, overcoming our faults, overcoming the struggles of the flesh and mind, overcoming the enemy of our souls..etc. A life in which we are attempting to be Spiritually minded and not carnally minded. I just finished reading a good analogy of different stages in our growth in Christ being compared to fruit. The fruit is perfect at each stage in development. Well, I'm sure you've heard it all before.... How do you interpret what is meant by being perfect? complete? mature?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

We are to walk as Christ walked. He is our example in all things. We have the same baptism Christ had, we are filled with the Holy Spirit just as He was. My question has to do with, as you said, "striving against sin" and can we live an overcoming life just as Christ did....a life above sin empowered by the Spirit Is it possible?

Or did Christ succeed in living a sinless life because He was God? If that is true, then it would be impossible for us to live an overcoming life because we are not God. I don't think Christ relied on His divine powers to overcome the temptations of the flesh and of the eyes, etc. but fully trusted in His Father in all things.

I'm not trying to compare us to God the Father and the purity of God but God in his manifestion as a man in which He calls us, brethren. In which, though still pure because He was without sin, He has set an example to which we strive to be like.

I haven't used the word, perfection, at all. Are you equating perfection with lack of sin? I'm speaking to a life that is overcoming, overcoming our faults, overcoming the struggles of the flesh and mind, overcoming the enemy of our souls..etc. A life in which we are attempting to be Spiritually minded and not carnally minded. I just finished reading a good analogy of different stages in our growth in Christ being compared to fruit. The fruit is perfect at each stage in development. Well, I'm sure you've heard it all before.... How do you interpret what is meant by being perfect? complete? mature?

To set the life of Christ as our goal and example is laudable. To set our expectations to be Jesus Himself is merely setting oneself up for failure.

In his life He walked on water and we are called to "follow in his steps" (1 Peter 2:21), but I would hope that you also know how to swim if you take this one literally.

We are expected to overcome and to progress in our journey and to "grow up in Him..." (Ephesians 4:13-15). However, that final goal of "perfection" is afar off (1 John 3:2). In the meantime we are called to manifest that "perfection" by living righteously and showing love to one another (1 John 2:7-11 and 1 John 3:1-12).

[Encryptus]

Originally Posted by pelathais

To set the life of Christ as our goal and example is laudable. To set our expectations to be Jesus Himself is merely setting oneself up for failure.

In his life He walked on water and we are called to "follow in his steps" (1 Peter 2:21), but I would hope that you also know how to swim if you take this one literally.

We are expected to overcome and to progress in our journey and to "grow up in Him..." (Ephesians 4:13-15). However, that final goal of "perfection" is afar off (1 John 3:2). In the meantime we are called to manifest that "perfection" by living righteously and showing love to one another (1 John 2:7-11 and 1 John 3:1-12).

I agree we set ourselves up for failure if we aspire to become Christ in perfect morality. It is interesting that you chose a miracle for your example though.

I thought the Holy One said (speaking of his miracles) "greater works than these shall ye do."

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

To set the life of Christ as our goal and example is laudable. To set our expectations to be Jesus Himself is merely setting oneself up for failure.

In his life He walked on water and we are called to "follow in his steps" (1 Peter 2:21), but I would hope that you also know how to swim if you take this one literally.

I take the verse below and the one you quoted literally as well as spiritually. If there was a need to walk on water and I had the faith, I believe it would be possible, Pel, but I'm not going to tempt God.

And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Matt 17:20