Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minister

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

So do you partake in elitist UPC bashing propaganda every day?

It sickens me how one sided people's views are. I have been to one church that rudely judgmental and UPC, it will remain unnamed.

No not every day, sometimes I have a tendency to be busy doing other stuff..

I am kind of surprised an intelligent person like you would call this elitist UPC bashing propaganda. I did not prompt this individual to say what he did, I did not tell him my position, he said it, I reported it as a topic of discussion.

I thought it was pretty ironic however in context because here the UPC has said they have a burden for the city, yet they expect everyone IN that city to drive up to an hour and a half to get there. This is also very evident in not partnering with other churches with folks of like precious faith. IF the UPC in my city were to fellowship with the men, great they look fine and acceptable, the women? Forget it, we are hung up on the appearance of your women, we can't reach the city with the gospel together.

To me it is indicative of the UPCmovement and approach to isolate from their fellowship EVERYONE who does not follow the 10 steps exactly to their expectations. THe UCs are great at this because if they don't agree, then hey, start a whole new organization and lets REALLY reach this city.

It is a big sham.

[clgustaveson]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

No not every day, sometimes I have a tendency to be busy doing other stuff..

I am kind of surprised an intelligent person like you would call this elitist UPC bashing propaganda. I did not prompt this individual to say what he did, I did not tell him my position, he said it, I reported it as a topic of discussion.

I thought it was pretty ironic however in context because here the UPC has said they have a burden for the city, yet they expect everyone IN that city to drive up to an hour and a half to get there. This is also very evident in not partnering with other churches with folks of like precious faith. IF the UPC in my city were to fellowship with the men, great they look fine and acceptable, the women? Forget it, we are hung up on the appearance of your women, we can't reach the city with the gospel together.

To me it is indicative of the UPCmovement and approach to isolate from their fellowship EVERYONE who does not follow the 10 steps exactly to their expectations. THe UCs are great at this because if they don't agree, then hey, start a whole new organization and lets REALLY reach this city.

It is a big sham.

I was joking BTW but you promoted him with the "they would think your women aren't saved" primer. I would have said the same thing as him if I were in his position. Really you were the one being judgmental, he was being honest if that was the sentiment.

Just come to terms, you hate the UPC. The only reason you deny it is because you want to go to heaven clear case of cognitive dissonance.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

I was joking BTW but you promoted him with the "they would think your women aren't saved" primer. I would have said the same thing as him if I were in his position. Really you were the one being judgmental, he was being honest if that was the sentiment.

Just come to terms, you hate the UPC. The only reason you deny it is because you want to go to heaven clear case of cognitive dissonance.

I don't hate anything or anyone. You need to come to terms that just because someone disagrees, they hate, bash, propagandize, etc.

I told that man exactly what I have been taught, and what folks have said verbatim around here. It may have been a primer, but I wasn't misrepresenting the UPC. Had I said something like, "It seems to me that the UPC doesn't like black people..." THAT is enciting a riot based on an assumption. I did not say what I did to get an emotional reaction.


There is no cognitive dissonance. I do not NEED to have faith in my own beliefs AND the UPC doctrine in order to be saved. Your comment is exactly why I believe in many many cases Apostolics don't have a clear or true understanding of grace.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

I don't hate anything or anyone. You need to come to terms that just because someone disagrees, they don't hate, bash, propagandize, etc.

I told that man exactly what I have been taught, and what folks have said verbatim around here. It may have been a primer, but I wasn't misrepresenting the UPC. Had I said something like, "It seems to me that the UPC doesn't like black people..." THAT is enciting a riot based on an assumption. I did not say what I did to get an emotional reaction.


There is no cognitive dissonance. I do not NEED to have faith in my own beliefs AND the UPC doctrine in order to be saved. Your comment is exactly why I believe in many many cases Apostolics don't have a clear or true understanding of grace.

Thanks CC. How am I doing here?

Freeatlast try to read your bible a little more. You said apparel is condemned, what a fool. You are ALLOWED to wear MODEST apparel, and as long as the neck tie is a solid black and so forth, its modest, and condoned by the bible. And yes Steve Epley I know of Bishop S C Johnson. Johnson was the ONE who had the WHOLE TRUTH. Johnson's doctrine still stands, and everything other than that is FALSE.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Bobbys

Freeatlast try to read your bible a little more. You said apparel is condemned, what a fool. You are ALLOWED to wear MODEST apparel, and as long as the neck tie is a solid black and so forth, its modest, and condoned by the bible. And yes Steve Epley I know of Bishop S C Johnson. Johnson was the ONE who had the WHOLE TRUTH. Johnson's doctrine still stands, and everything other than that is FALSE.

Johnson's doctrine is above God's word? Is that what you are saying, or he was the only man that had the truth? THAT would be false doctrine!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

Johnson's doctrine is above God's word? Is that what you are saying, or he was the only man that had the truth? THAT would be false doctrine!

Bishop Johnson's doctrine/teaching IS the Word of God.
When he spoke, God was speaking through him.
If he spoke "ex cathedra" his words had the same validity as anything in the written word.

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Bobbys

Freeatlast try to read your bible a little more. You said apparel is condemned, what a fool. You are ALLOWED to wear MODEST apparel, and as long as the neck tie is a solid black and so forth, its modest, and condoned by the bible. And yes Steve Epley I know of Bishop S C Johnson. Johnson was the ONE who had the WHOLE TRUTH. Johnson's doctrine still stands, and everything other than that is FALSE.

You get banned around here for calling people fools!

By the way, I have never heard of SC Johnson, so I guess I just will have to rely on the Word of God.

[Jekyll]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

I don't hate anything or anyone. You need to come to terms that just because someone disagrees, they hate, bash, propagandize, etc.

I told that man exactly what I have been taught, and what folks have said verbatim around here. It may have been a primer, but I wasn't misrepresenting the UPC. Had I said something like, "It seems to me that the UPC doesn't like black people..." THAT is enciting a riot based on an assumption. I did not say what I did to get an emotional reaction.


There is no cognitive dissonance. I do not NEED to have faith in my own beliefs AND the UPC doctrine in order to be saved. Your comment is exactly why I believe in many many cases Apostolics don't have a clear or true understanding of grace.

Ok, so, what is the true or clear understanding of grace?

[Carpenter]

hmmm...very interesting.