If Physical Death is Final?

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Correct, but that is not a failure on God's part. God wanted it that way -- choice.

But I see a flaw in that reasoning. First, the vast majority of human beings that have been and are lost have never heard the Gospel. There wasn’t any “choice”. Now, UR on the other hand holds that after death all are presented a choice to repent and come in alignment with God’s will after they have been adequately punished for their sins. Of course UR holds that eventually, in the dateless future, all souls will bow and confess to the glory of God that Jesus is their Lord and King.

For example…a little girl is dying right now in Africa of some disease as we speak. She’s 17 years old and has never heard the Gospel. You propose that she will die and be tortured for all eternity because she was born at the wrong place at the wrong time. UR resolves that issue rather justly.

Like I said, you cannot say God failed if His purpose was TO RECONCILE all to himself and all are not reconciled. The means He chose in making it our choice did not fail! We chose and some did not. All who chose did choose.

If God’s purpose was to reconcile all things to himself…and all are not reconciled…God was thwarted and his purpose adequately defeated by his creation. God failed to accomplish that which he purposed to do. The only way out of this is to propose that God only purposed a select few for salvation (being all knowing he must have if you’re right). But that would be moving into the realm of Calvinism and divine election.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Antipas

But I see a flaw in that reasoning. First, the vast majority of human beings that have been and are lost have never heard the Gospel. There wasn’t any “choice”. Now, UR on the other hand holds that after death all are presented a choice to repent and come in alignment with God’s will after they have been adequately punished for their sins. Of course UR holds that eventually, in the dateless future, all souls will bow and confess to the glory of God that Jesus is their Lord and King.

For example…a little girl is dying right now in Africa of some disease as we speak. She’s 17 years old and has never heard the Gospel. You propose that she will die and be tortured for all eternity because she was born at the wrong place at the wrong time. UR resolves that issue rather justly.

If God’s purpose was to reconcile all things to himself…and all are not reconciled…God was thwarted and his purpose adequately defeated by his creation. God failed to accomplish that which he purposed to do. The only way out of this is to propose that God only purposed a select few for salvation (being all knowing he must have if you’re right). But that would be moving into the realm of Calvinism and divine election.

Incorrect. God decided that MEN WOULD CHOOSE to serve Him or not. And He laid out the cross for all men to be able to be reconciled by their choice. If they chose not, then so be it. Nothing of God's plan failed. Failure is not in the equation at all if the blood COULD reconcile all by the choice of all. The choice of God was to have the blood able to reconcile everyone who willed. And this did not fail. You cannot remove the choice of man in this.

There is no flaw in my logic here.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Incorrect. God decided that MEN WOULD CHOOSE to serve Him or not. And He laid out the cross for all men to be able to be reconciled by their choice. If they chose not, then so be it. Nothing of God's plan failed. Failure is not in the equation at all if the blood COULD reconcile all by the choice of all. The choice of God was to have the blood able to reconcile everyone who willed. And this did not fail. You cannot remove the choice of man in this.

There is no flaw in my logic here.

Yes there is...the majority in Hell had no choice. The e vast majority of the human race who have been lost has never heard the Gospel. If a person hasn't heard...they had no choice. Plain and simple.

If it's based on choice, at the very least there must be an accommodation for those who have never heard.

If EVERYONE on earth heard the gospel and choose against it...then you'd have a point.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Incorrect. God decided that MEN WOULD CHOOSE to serve Him or not. And He laid out the cross for all men to be able to be reconciled by their choice. If they chose not, then so be it. Nothing of God's plan failed. Failure is not in the equation at all if the blood COULD reconcile all by the choice of all. The choice of God was to have the blood able to reconcile everyone who willed. And this did not fail. You cannot remove the choice of man in this.

There is no flaw in my logic here.

The only flaw is the elephant in the living room, it means God messed up, (of course He did not), didn't anticipate the fall, Satan outfoxed him (that's impossible). Or else you make a whole bunch of exceptions: mentally retarded, infants, those that never heard, etc, etc, etc.

Just face it Micheal, you cannot get there from here!!