Do we serve a "gotchya!" God?

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by iceniez

Ok,Howaout Mark 16:15-18

How many Christians do you know that have cast out demons...are those who have not cast out a devil lost?


and what of those who have not handled a rattler Iceniez?? Must be lost too.

You've vever drank poison...you're lost then too.

You see you just want ot take the "sign" of tongues her and disregard the rest.

Truth is, and this will shock you, but most all bible scholars will tell you that the scriptures you cite here are NOT found in any early manucsripts.

What's that mean you ask. Some overzeaolus scribe ADDED them later, for whatever reason he ADDED them to Gods word I can't tell you.

But i can tell John, in Revealation spoke very dimly of those who addd or subtract from Gods word.

We OP's love to preach that 1 John 5:7 is not in the early manuscript but don't like to admit that without Mark 16: 15 -18, there is NO mention of tongues in the gospels.

And these gospels were written by pentecostal preachers that had witnessed years of church history before they wrote their accounts.

[aak1972]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

How many Christians do you know that have cast out demons...are those who have not cast out a devil lost?


and what of those who have not handled a rattler Iceniez?? Must be lost too.

You've vever drank poison...you're lost then too.

You see you just want ot take the "sign" of tongues her and disregard the rest.

Truth is, and this will shock you, but most all bible scholars will tell you that the scriptures you cite here are NOT found in any early manucsripts.

What's that mean you ask. Some overzeaolus scribe ADDED them later, for whatever reason he ADDED them to Gods word I can't tell you.

But i can tell John, in Revealation spoke very dimly of those who addd or subtract from Gods word.

We OP's love to preach that 1 John 5:7 is not in the early manuscript but don't like to admit that without Mark 16: 15 -18, there is NO mention of tongues in the gospels.

And these gospels were written by pentecostal preachers that had witnessed years of church history before they wrote their accounts.

Actaully tongues were given after the ascension so there would be no account in the gospels since they all end before then chronologically.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by aak1972

Actaully tongues were given after the ascension so there would be no account in the gospels since they all end before then chronologically.

Yes, that is true. I just find it curious that Matt Mark Luke and John, who at the time of their writting of the gospel accounts, had seen the tongue talking that is recorded in Acts and in Corinthians.

Yet they speak of only faith and believing in their writings with no mention of tongues.

You'd NEVER see that today from a writer with "tongues or hell" background.

[iceniez]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

How many Christians do you know that have cast out demons...are those who have not cast out a devil lost?


and what of those who have not handled a rattler Iceniez?? Must be lost too.

You've vever drank poison...you're lost then too.

You see you just want ot take the "sign" of tongues her and disregard the rest.

Truth is, and this will shock you, but most all bible scholars will tell you that the scriptures you cite here are NOT found in any early manucsripts.

What's that mean you ask. Some overzeaolus scribe ADDED them later, for whatever reason he ADDED them to Gods word I can't tell you.

But i can tell John, in Revealation spoke very dimly of those who addd or subtract from Gods word.

We OP's love to preach that 1 John 5:7 is not in the early manuscript but don't like to admit that without Mark 16: 15 -18, there is NO mention of tongues in the gospels.

And these gospels were written by pentecostal preachers that had witnessed years of church history before they wrote their accounts.

I wasn't trying to argue I JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU WERE COMING FROM.I do believe to the opposite however.As far as casting out demons I had someone testify in church that when a friend ofmine and I laid hands on her and prayed for her She was set free from a demon.Her words not mine.You can believe what you want .

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by iceniez

I wasn't trying to argue I JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU WERE COMING FROM.I do believe to the opposite however.As far as casting out demons I had someone testify in church that when a friend ofmine and I laid hands on her and prayed for her She was set free from a demon.Her words not mine.You can believe what you want .

Not wanting to argue either my friend, just answering your question.

But you miised my point about Mk 16. It's great that you cast out a devil.

My point was, you are using this as a proof text that ALL must speak in tongues.

My point is, if it applies to tongues it also must be applied in the same fassion to casting out devils, handling snakes, drinking poison, etc

If this verse menas every christian will speak in tongues, then it alaso mean if you have not done all the other things listed as signs following that you are lost.

I spose that is OK with OP's as we have never been a group that demanded consistancy in interpeting scripture.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Not wanting to argue either my friend, just answering your question.

But you miised my point about Mk 16. It's great that you cast out a devil.

My point was, you are using this as a proof text that ALL must speak in tongues.

My point is, if it applies to tongues it also must be applied in the same fassion to casting out devils, handling snakes, drinking poison, etc

If this verse menas every christian will speak in tongues, then it alaso mean if you have not done all the other things listed as signs following that you are lost.

I spose that is OK with OP's as we have never been a group that demanded consistancy in interpeting scripture.

Acts clearly shows the Apostles expected to see the manifested presence of the HS. As I might ask when do you know you have received the HS that would fall in concert with what happened in Acts 19 and Acts 10?

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Acts clearly shows the Apostles expected to see the manifested presence of the HS. As I might ask when do you know you have received the HS that would fall in concert with what happened in Acts 19 and Acts 10?

Expected??? Shoot, I think it says they were astonished that it happened.

They were not at all expecting what had happened to them 10 years ago to happen to the household of Cornelius


Amazed / Astonished.....NOT expecting. could be that they had not seen anything like this since it happened ten years ago on the day of pentecost.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Expected??? Shoot, I think it says they were astonished that it happened.

.

Excellent point!

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Expected??? Shoot, I think it says they were astonished that it happened.

They were not at all expecting what had happened to them 10 years ago to happen to the household of Cornelius


Amazed / Astonished.....NOT expecting. could be that they had not seen anything like this since it happened ten years ago on the day of pentecost.

Actually I meant Acts 8 sorry for the typo. Also actually it was that God gave them the HS, tongues was just the evidence which they readily accepted the sign per there experience.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Actually I meant Acts 8 sorry for the typo. Also actually it was that God gave them the HS, tongues was just the evidence which they readily accepted the sign per there experience.

I do not argue that tongues were not a "sign" that God had added some to the church Bro. Luke.

In Acts 10 it waas a sign to the UNbelieving Jews. They would not believe that God would or could save anyone but them. Hence God gave THEM a sign that he had indeed moved intot he lives of these uncircumcised Gentiles.


Same situation in Acts 8. vs 14 ..when the apostles heard that Samaritans ( another hated Gentile cross culture) had believed they were again astonished. they could not believe that God could save such a people.

They sent Peter and John to check out this unbelievable rumor.

Again God used this sign that those at the upper room had witnessed.

These events seem in line with Paul's teaching about tongues in 1 Corinthians 14

Paul wrote that "tongues are a sign NOT to believers but to unbelievers"

In fact in the only letters that address tongues, in the letters written to the churchs, Paul does not state or even hint that tongues were to be expected as initial evidence that someone had recieved God's spirit. Not once!!