Do we serve a "gotchya!" God?

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by aak1972

Actaully tongues were given after the ascension so there would be no account in the gospels since they all end before then chronologically.

Yes, that is true. I just find it curious that Matt Mark Luke and John, who at the time of their writting of the gospel accounts, had seen the tongue talking that is recorded in Acts and in Corinthians.

Yet they speak of only faith and believing in their writings with no mention of tongues.

You'd NEVER see that today from a writer with "tongues or hell" background.

[iceniez]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

How many Christians do you know that have cast out demons...are those who have not cast out a devil lost?


and what of those who have not handled a rattler Iceniez?? Must be lost too.

You've vever drank poison...you're lost then too.

You see you just want ot take the "sign" of tongues her and disregard the rest.

Truth is, and this will shock you, but most all bible scholars will tell you that the scriptures you cite here are NOT found in any early manucsripts.

What's that mean you ask. Some overzeaolus scribe ADDED them later, for whatever reason he ADDED them to Gods word I can't tell you.

But i can tell John, in Revealation spoke very dimly of those who addd or subtract from Gods word.

We OP's love to preach that 1 John 5:7 is not in the early manuscript but don't like to admit that without Mark 16: 15 -18, there is NO mention of tongues in the gospels.

And these gospels were written by pentecostal preachers that had witnessed years of church history before they wrote their accounts.

I wasn't trying to argue I JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU WERE COMING FROM.I do believe to the opposite however.As far as casting out demons I had someone testify in church that when a friend ofmine and I laid hands on her and prayed for her She was set free from a demon.Her words not mine.You can believe what you want .

[Michael The Disciple]

Mark 16:16 is very clear, when it comes to baptism and HG infilling (John 3:5) do it, obey it and walk right before GOD all the rest of the days of your life, giving HIM glory and keeping HIS commandments and working towards perfection.

Yes baptism is essential. However Mark 16:16 does not carry any more weight than Rev. 3:2-5

2: Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3: Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4: Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5: He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Many who have been baptized and received the Spirit could still be blotted out if they do not overcome. That does not mean God is "gotcha". He has told us all along whats essential to enter Heaven. Its just we close our eyes to the truth. We pretend our works dont have to be perfect despite what Jesus said.

[Jack Shephard]

RW, I don't think that God is a taskmaster or a Gotchya God. I believe that God is a God of Great mercy and nothing will change that. We can come up with examples after examples on what if's, but truth is that God is God and He is good. I believe that He will be that same savior that was on the cross and will have them in paradise.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Brad Murphy

Some of us cannot even see God through all of the rules and regulations... it is just a religion of the god of "Don't"... and you get more points the more things that you can think of to make rules against. The person with the most rules wins... Whoopie!

Reading some of the people's posts, it seems that they are excited when they find something new to preach against (except for the internet - it has a divine exception)... it may actually be easier to make a list of things that are NOT wrong... let's see:

Eating (definitely first on the list)
Shopping for church clothes
Reading the Bible (at least 4 hours a day)
Church (never enough church - Glooooorrraaaay!)
Prayer (at least 4 hours a day)
Sleeping (in moderation)
Work (only enough to barely support your family, and have a wardrobe about two paygrades above your actual income... anything else would be greed)
Thinking (only within the safe boundaries that the pastor allows, and only if you have time left over from the items above it on the list... if you do have time to think, you are probably not doing something else on the list often enough...)

Pretty much anything beyond this list falls into the "glorifying self" category.

Hey, hey, hey!!!
I used to read the bible 3 or 4 hours a day when I was in H.S. AND I have prayed 3 or 4 hours several times.....

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by iceniez

I wasn't trying to argue I JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU WERE COMING FROM.I do believe to the opposite however.As far as casting out demons I had someone testify in church that when a friend ofmine and I laid hands on her and prayed for her She was set free from a demon.Her words not mine.You can believe what you want .

Not wanting to argue either my friend, just answering your question.

But you miised my point about Mk 16. It's great that you cast out a devil.

My point was, you are using this as a proof text that ALL must speak in tongues.

My point is, if it applies to tongues it also must be applied in the same fassion to casting out devils, handling snakes, drinking poison, etc

If this verse menas every christian will speak in tongues, then it alaso mean if you have not done all the other things listed as signs following that you are lost.

I spose that is OK with OP's as we have never been a group that demanded consistancy in interpeting scripture.

[ILG]

I 've tried not to serve a "gotchya god" but a few have tried to cram that guy down my throat.

[Ron]

Randy, I can only say what I believe the Bible says, that obeying the Gospel which is obedience to Acts 2:38 is what one needs to get into Heaven!

Judging people who haven't followed the Bible isn't our prerogative!

It is God's & God alone!

That is the God I serve!

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Yes baptism is essential. However Mark 16:16 does not carry any more weight than Rev. 3:2-5

2: Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3: Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4: Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5: He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Many who have been baptized and received the Spirit could still be blotted out if they do not overcome. That does not mean God is "gotcha". He has told us all along whats essential to enter Heaven. Its just we close our eyes to the truth. We pretend our works dont have to be perfect despite what Jesus said.

Well said!

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

The one-step/three-step (among many others over the years) has made me ask this question.

Do we serve a "Gotchya!" God?

A godly man who was officially saved as a young teen and led a godly life, raised a godly family, always attended church and gave selflessly, strong and gentle in his demeanor, quick to forgive and slow to anger, and someone who has effected countless lives for the better.

Now, at age 60, he is driving home from the hardware store (he IS a practiced handy man after all) and someone cuts him off. He is in a hurry and says a curse word (in his head only since he won't actually utter it). 3 seconds later, another car broadsides him and he enters eternity within minutes as a result of the trauma.

Many who proclaim themselves to be strict "three steppers" would proclaim this a great tragedy since he is now roasting in Hell in endless torment since he died with unrepentant sin in his life. (I single out three steppers since I have found over the years that their view point tends to more often than not, lead to this idea of needing to die sinless in order to be truly saved.)

Another man comes to the breaking point in his life and cries out to God for forgiveness and "salvation". He has heard about baptism but doesn't understand its importance. All he knows is that everyone seems to be rushing him to have it done the very night he cried at the alter. The next evening, he too is in a car accident.

The funeral is not a joyous event as a great sadness lingers and many shake their heads knowing that he is now in torment due to having been killed prior to being baptized. (The fact that he has not spoken in tongues to their knowledge only adds to the sorrow of the situation.)
His story will be told for years to come to ALL new converts as a lesson of what can happen if you withhold being baptized.

So what God DO we serve?

According to my old beliefs they would both be in hell. It makes me so sad when I think of the fear that I used to live in. I lived on this performance treadmill, demanding perfection in myself, and as I was woefully inadequate my spiritual walk tended to go back and forth between me being afraid that God would catch me in a weak moment and I would end up and hell, and railing at God for His impossible demands.

It's no surprise to me that many people reach a point where they decide that as hell is inevitable, they might as well do what they will.

I myself was fortunate to come to the conclusion that either God was in fact the horrible being I had come to see Him as (in which case I wanted no part of him) or that I in fact had no idea who God was at all (in which case I needed to change my focus from trying to attain perfection through works, and instead focus on that search).